How to deal with bad refs

[coach-rec]

First time to the site.

I'm a coach for a rec league and the refs in the league are well known to favor certain players/teams to the point that even the teams being favored admit it after the fact to my players.

I'm not trying to say that it's all the refs because there's quite a few instances where the kids are just caught up in other fouls or try to explain away their mistakes with the refs. I'm talking about clear instances where the following types of things occur

- Kid goes up for layup and the defender comes across his legs and the kid's momentum changed to the point that he almost got hurt - no call with the ref standing in front of it.

- no call on one side of the court and we're called for the same action (granted by a different ref) on the other side (see question below concerning this).

- Kid gets slapped across the arm and when I ask for an explanation of how the ref couldn't call it I'm told "it was all ball and your kid is just soft"

I also am wondering if I'm imagining this or not. Isn't there a rule where the refs don't officiate the same side after halftime? I've noticed that the same ref always positions himself on our offensive side of the ball and it's consistent enough to not be coincidence.

What's interesting to me is that this year we're winning in spite of this situation. I'm just trying to get some feedback and opinions from other people.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by coach-rec

First time to the site.

I'm a coach for a rec league and the refs in the league are well known to favor certain players/teams to the point that even the teams being favored admit it after the fact to my players.

I'm not trying to say that it's all the refs because there's quite a few instances where the kids are just caught up in other fouls or try to explain away their mistakes with the refs. I'm talking about clear instances where the following types of things occur

- Kid goes up for layup and the defender comes across his legs and the kid's momentum changed to the point that he almost got hurt - no call with the ref standing in front of it.

- no call on one side of the court and we're called for the same action (granted by a different ref) on the other side (see question below concerning this).

- Kid gets slapped across the arm and when I ask for an explanation of how the ref couldn't call it I'm told "it was all ball and your kid is just soft"

I also am wondering if I'm imagining this or not. Isn't there a rule where the refs don't officiate the same side after halftime? I've noticed that the same ref always positions himself on our offensive side of the ball and it's consistent enough to not be coincidence.

What's interesting to me is that this year we're winning in spite of this situation. I'm just trying to get some feedback and opinions from other people.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Have the "league administrator" look at it and talk to the refs if needed.

[Raymond]

Are the refs ever favoring your team and players or is it just your opponents? Do other coaches ever complain that your team gets a call on one end but his team doesn't get the same call? Have you ever noticed that your team gets the benefit of a bad call?

But I digress, bottom line is that if you want better refs your league needs to pay more money for officials.

[coach-rec]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Are the refs ever favoring your team and players or is it just your opponents? Do other coaches ever complain that your team gets a call on one end but his team doesn't get the same call? Have you ever noticed that your team gets the benefit of a bad call?

But I digress, bottom line is that if you want better refs your league needs to pay more money for officials.

Can't disagree with the better pay comment. And no there's never favoritism to my team. It's not really about my team as much as it's about the favoritism shown to two teams and all others get the treatment I'm concerned with.

Until this year our team was the doormat of the league and the refs wouldn't call fouls where blood was drawn from fingernails across skin because we were down by 30 and what was the point? The refs wanted to get to their car. I got a T on that one and was threatened with the ref ending the game if I didn't cut it out which was laughable because we were already down 30 with 2minutes left in the game. I deserved the T but my rule was the kids weren't allowed to complain to the refs so I had to stick up for him on it.

I'm considering talking to the league administrator about it however I think I'm going to have to wait until after the championship game. I just wanted to see what others think and what advice they might have about it.

[BLydic]

Originally Posted by coach-rec

the refs in the league are well known to favor certain players/teams

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Have the "league administrator" look at it and talk to the refs if needed.

Always listen to Bob

[APG]

What do you pay your officials? Are your officials certified by the state? You want better officiating, you'll have to pay for it.

[wfd21]

We are all one sided and on the take. Go find a Coaches forum

[coach-rec]

Also what about the question of whether refs are supposed to switch sides at halftime or if it's up to them? I just don't know that answer but seem to remember that there's a rule on it.

Pay as I understand it is $30-35 per game where the refs have two to three games twice per week. The officials are certified by the state however they ref at lower levels than what they're ref'ing in this leage.

wfd21 - I can appreciate that you don't want to answer but why would I go to a coach to answer a question that deals directly with a referee, the rules they follow (or are supposed to follow), and how they interpret them? Kinda seems like asking a nun what sex is like if you ask me.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by coach-rec

Also what about the question of whether refs are supposed to switch sides at halftime or if it's up to them? I just don't know that answer but seem to remember that there's a rule on it.
...

This question really doesn't make any sense. An official is either Lead (offensive team's endline) or Trail (near division line). Game action, time-outs, violations, fouls, and transition will cause an official's position to change.

Are you saying in your league an official stays on one half of the court during all the action?

[APG]

Officials don't switch at half time. It will depend on your state/area as they may adapt/change the mechanics as prescribed by NFHS. Generally, you'll get switches on fouls in the frontcourt. Usually there won't be in any long switches (officials changing positions on a foul in the backcourt with no free throws). There also may be times where the officials decide to force a switch for whatever reason. Now the fact that this is "rec ball" and not "real ball" means some will take some liberties with switching and my not follow it to a tee.

As far as the level of officials you get, a lot of times, depending on the level you are coaching, means you're not necessarily receiving the best of the best or you are getting a lot of the newer officials which means there will be a lot of mistakes just like there is with the players.

[Nevadaref]

Working for a rec league is not greatly desired by many officials. The pay is generally lousy, the play not so wonderful, and the yelling from the fans/coaches/parents is mostly a pain. So many better officials pass on working these leagues. However, that doesn't mean that your league can't be a positive.

What are the ages of the players in your league?
Are you using refs certified by the state association who work HS games?
You say the pay is $30-35 per game. That's decent for a rec league.
The refs are supposed to switch positions on each foul, but most do not when working a rec league game. Many don't even when working HS games.
It is simply being lazy.

In the end, you get what you pay for as well as who will come to the environment that you create. If it is a negative experience, then expect lower level officials to be the only ones willing to come out.

[coach-rec]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

This question really doesn't make any sense. An official is either Lead (offensive team's endline) or Trail (near division line). Game action, time-outs, violations, fouls, and transition will cause an official's position to change.

Are you saying in your league an official stays on one half of the court during all the action?

What I'm saying is that the lead ref, when we're in the offensive zone, switches at halftime so that he's the lead ref in the second half when we're in the offensive zone. When we go to our defensive zone he becomes the trail and it stays this way throughout the game.

The trail, when we're in our offensive zone, never calls anything that he deems to be the lead ref's call and has explained this to me several times however when he becomes the lead ref when we're on our defensive zone he calls those fouls as it's now "his call".

What I'm frustrated with is that we always have the same lead ref when we're in our offensive zone.

And ultimately what I'm trying to get at and seems to have been answered is whether there's a rule about this or if it's discretionary.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by coach-rec

Also what about the question of whether refs are supposed to switch sides at halftime or if it's up to them? I just don't know that answer but seem to remember that there's a rule on it.

I do not even know what you are talking about. There is no rule that says anything like this. Now we have "mechanics" that dictate some movement or positioning, but considering that this is a wreck league, I am sure no regular mechanics are being followed when an official is paid so low and they are probably doing multiple games in one night. Again, you get what you pay for.

Originally Posted by coach-rec

wfd21 - I can appreciate that you don't want to answer but why would I go to a coach to answer a question that deals directly with a referee, the rules they follow (or are supposed to follow), and how they interpret them? Kinda seems like asking a nun what sex is like if you ask me.

If you have not noticed (and appears you have not), you are getting a lot of sarcastic answers. It is not about not wanting to answer your question; there is no way to answer your questions here. For one no one knows what happens on these plays or saw them. I do not know the officials or know why a foul was called in one situation and not called in another situation. Also a slap on the wrist is not a "foul" by rule. That contact might have been minimal or not put the player at a disadvantage. Heck, none of us were there to know for sure.

The best advice is either bring us tape of the plays so that we can see what really took place or go to a coach's forum so all you can complain about how bad officials are all over the place and you will feel better in the end. But at this point and the way you approached this issue here I doubt you are going to get and real answers you seem to be looking for.

Peace

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by coach-rec

Also what about the question of whether refs are supposed to switch sides at halftime or if it's up to them? I just don't know that answer but seem to remember that there's a rule on it.

Assuming you have a two-man crew, officials are supposed to switch lead and trail duties after every foul. Granted, in the off-season, and particularly with running clocks, some switches may be skipped to move the game along. However, if crews aren't switching at all, that's a problem.

Pay as I understand it is $30-35 per game where the refs have two to three games twice per week.

That's not bad for off-season, at least around here. Has anybody given some feedback to these officials? I don't know how many times I've personally heard "good job" or "great job," only to wind up with ratings that don't quite match that feel-good feedback.

[coach-rec]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Working for a rec league is not greatly desired by many officials. The pay is generally lousy, the play not so wonderful, and the yelling from the fans/coaches/parents is mostly a pain. So many better officials pass on working these leagues. However, that doesn't mean that your league can't be a positive.

What are the ages of the players in your league?
Are you using refs certified by the state association who work HS games?
You say the pay is $30-35 per game. That's decent for a rec league.
The refs are supposed to switch positions on each foul, but most do not when working a rec league game. Many don't even when working HS games.
It is simply being lazy.

In the end, you get what you pay for as well as who will come to the environment that you create. If it is a negative experience, then expect lower level officials to be the only ones willing to come out.

Thanks for the response.

To answer your questions....

What are the ages of the players in your league? - 15-18
Are you using refs certified by the state association who work HS games? - I'm told yes and they have the association patches that other refs have.

I can't disagree with you on the environment aspect of it because that's true which also probably explains why the ones that will come favor the teams that fit the environment. We beat one of those teams yesterday in a very physical game with a lot of pushing and the opposite team only had 3 fouls at the end of the 2nd half and the fans were still yelling that they were cheated and more fouls should have been called on us.