How to deal with bad refs

[coach-rec]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If you have not noticed (and appears you have not), you are getting a lot of sarcastic answers. It is not about not wanting to answer your question; there is no way to answer your questions here. For one no one knows what happens on these plays or saw them. I do not know the officials or know why a foul was called in one situation and not called in another situation. Also a slap on the wrist is not a "foul" by rule. That contact might have been minimal or not put the player at a disadvantage. Heck, none of us were there to know for sure.

The best advice is either bring us tape of the plays so that we can see what really took place or go to a coach's forum so all you can complain about how bad officials are all over the place and you will feel better in the end. But at this point and the way you approached this issue here I doubt you are going to get and real answers you seem to be looking for.Peace

I've noticed quite well. That doesn't change that I came here for an honest reason and am getting the answers I'm looking for while having to read between the lines in a few areas. I'm not asking for you to "side with me" and say my refs are bad. I'm only presenting a situation and seeing what people's opinions on it are.

I'm a fan of officials and have a good relationship with many of them in other leagues I coach and play in. From some of the comments I've seen here and in other posts I would say that most here at least care about their craft and that's all you can ask for.

If my presence/posts disturb you then I'm sorry.

[fullor30]

What state are you in? 30-35 is good pay for rec league. Look for an influx of immigrating Louisiana officials to your area soon.

[APG]

Originally Posted by fullor30

what state are you in? 30-35 is good pay for rec league. Look for an influx of immigrating louisiana officials to your area soon.

LOL!

That's just a sad commentary on that state of Louisiana officiating pay.

[26 Year Gap]

Watch a game between two other teams that aren't in favored status. Are both teams and coaches constantly griping at the officials? It sounds to me that if they are not switching after fouls and are staying at one end that they are picking up bad habits. The whole point of switching is so that you are not constantly at one team's offensive end as lead. Most officials that avoid rec leagues do so for reasons stated earlier. The pay is not the issue here as that is decent for the type of league it is.

Talk to the league administrator as Bob suggested. It may be best to take notes and talk after the season. And have other coaches take notes as well. Then see if your league administrator can have a meeting with the assignor. Maybe the league could pay for an observer from the association to show up once in awhile to do evaluations unannounced.

But the main reason better officials will avoid rec leagues is because the sportsmanship is often non-existent.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Look for an influx of immigrating Louisiana officials to your area soon.

Best one-liner of the off-season thus far!

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Best one-liner of the off-season thus far!

I think it takes a close 2nd.
"Can't Call Lassie" is third
BUT
"Asking a nun about sex" is my winner!!!

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Judtech

"Asking a nun about sex"

Nun of this. Nun of that.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by coach-rec

I've noticed quite well. That doesn't change that I came here for an honest reason and am getting the answers I'm looking for while having to read between the lines in a few areas. I'm not asking for you to "side with me" and say my refs are bad. I'm only presenting a situation and seeing what people's opinions on it are.

Did you really expect to get an "honest answer" when you are asking people to know what motivates people in an area none of us know anything about? Based on what you have said, there is no such animal in my parts as most kids are playing with schools or travel/AAU teams. And the travel/AAU model often are with officials that want to make an extra buck and do not care about mechanics or even working the game to be honest. And the suggestion that a team is favored in that setting at all to me is laughable. What the heck are they favoring someone for at all? Many probably would not even know who is playing unless they work the league all the time.

Originally Posted by coach-rec

I'm a fan of officials and have a good relationship with many of them in other leagues I coach and play in. From some of the comments I've seen here and in other posts I would say that most here at least care about their craft and that's all you can ask for.

If my presence/posts disturb you then I'm sorry.

Your post does not bother me at all. Honestly I am bored which is why I commented in the first place. I just wonder what you are going to find on an internet site that you could not find out by asking the people in your area or from the officials working your games.

Peace

[coach-rec]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Did you really expect to get an "honest answer" when you are asking people to know what motivates people in an area none of us know anything about?

No I expected to get an opinion or several of them. I got plenty and some that helped.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Your post does not bother me at all. Honestly I am bored which is why I commented in the first place. I just wonder what you are going to find on an internet site that you could not find out by asking the people in your area or from the officials working your games.

I found quite a bit that will be useful when I talk to the administrator

1. Officials are supposed to switch responsibilities throughout the game. I did not know this so it's good to know. In non-sanctioned games though it's common for refs to be "lazy" about it.
2. I realized I'm not completely sure whether the officials are certified or not. Something to follow up on in my conversation with the administrator
3. You're bored - doesn't really help me in my league but I could not have found that out by asking local officials.
4. Apparently $30-35 per game is good pay for some areas.
(EDIT) - And reading some of the other posts in this forum is quite educational about rules, officials thinking/responsibilities, and gameplay

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by coach-rec

(EDIT) - And reading some of the other posts in this forum is quite educational about rules, officials thinking/responsibilities, and gameplay

That's really what the forum is about. Feel free to post questions and participate in the discussion!

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by mbyron

That's really what the forum is about. Feel free to post questions and participate in the discussion!

And take the class and the test. You might find that you enjoy it. And you certainly will learn from it.

[tref]

Originally Posted by coach-rec

I found quite a bit that will be useful when I talk to the administrator

1. Officials are supposed to switch responsibilities throughout the game. I did not know this so it's good to know. In non-sanctioned games though it's common for refs to be "lazy" about it.
2. I realized I'm not completely sure whether the officials are certified or not. Something to follow up on in my conversation with the administrator
3. You're bored - doesn't really help me in my league but I could not have found that out by asking local officials.
4. Apparently $30-35 per game is good pay for some areas.
(EDIT) - And reading some of the other posts in this forum is quite educational about rules, officials thinking/responsibilities, and gameplay

1. Is this "league" using a running clock? If so, not switching on every foul is to conserve the players time on the court. Please dont assume the officials are just "being lazy."

2. So what if the officials arent "certified" it isnt a "certified" contest & obviously the coaches arent "certified" at the HS level either. Most certified officials that I know dont want to deal with the ignorance that goes on at these levels of play. Especially during March Madness & NBA playoff time!! IMO, you guys are watching it on tv before your game & come into the gym way too hyped up for your skill level & true abilities.

3. LOL

4. That is very decent for the off-season!

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

And take the class and the test. You might find that you enjoy it. And you certainly will learn from it.

Nothing better than working with a coach that knows his stuff!!

If an official should know the rules before stepping on a court, shouldn't the coach know em too?

[coach-rec]

Originally Posted by tref

1. Is this "league" using a running clock? If so, not switching on every foul is to conserve the players time on the court. Please dont assume the officials are just "being lazy."

2. So what if the officials arent "certified" it isnt a "certified" contest & obviously the coaches arent "certified" at the HS level either. Most certified officials that I know dont want to deal with the ignorance that goes on at these levels of play. Especially during March Madness & NBA playoff time!! IMO, you guys are watching it on tv before your game & come into the gym way too hyped up for your skill level & true abilities.

- I won't assume that but it is something I will ask about. My plan is to talk to the administrator who I already know has some issues with the officiating however runs into a lot of the problems you mentioned (running during season/etc...)

- I'm not saying I'm going to go in with a "prove you're certified" button or anything. It's just a point that weighs into the situation.

Originally Posted by tref

Nothing better than working with a coach that knows his stuff!!

If an official should know the rules before stepping on a court, shouldn't the coach know em too?

You make a good point here so that's something I will consider.

[tref]

Originally Posted by coach-rec

- I won't assume that but it is something I will ask about. My plan is to talk to the administrator who I already know has some issues with the officiating however runs into a lot of the problems you mentioned (running during season/etc...)

- I'm not saying I'm going to go in with a "prove you're certified" button or anything. It's just a point that weighs into the situation.

So are saying it is a running clock or not?

Again, what does certified have to do with anything? Unless the administrator promotes the league as using certified officials only, it should not matter. Being "certified" really only means that one has passed a written test, PERIOD!

- I know a guy that couldn't pass the HS test, but can work his tail off & has since moved up to the DI level.
- I know a guy that scored 100% on the test, but cant call Lassie.
- I know guys that buy shirts with the certified patch already on it & have never taken the test.

At the end of the day, you aren't a certified coach & your players have got to put the ball in the basket!
Even US cheating refs cant stop made baskets, or can we??

[coach-rec]

Originally Posted by tref

So are saying it is a running clock or not?

Again, what does certified have to do with anything? Unless the administrator promotes the league as using certified officials only, it should not matter. Being "certified" really only means that one has passed a written test, PERIOD!

- I know a guy that couldn't pass the HS test, but can work his tail off & has since moved up to the DI level.
- I know a guy that scored 100% on the test, but cant call Lassie.
- I know guys that buy shirts with the certified patch already on it & have never taken the test.

At the end of the day, you aren't a certified coach & your players have got to put the ball in the basket!
Even US cheating refs cant stop made baskets, or can we??

It is a running clock until 2 minutes so I see your point on the not switching however they still switch at halftime so that the same ref is on our baseline when we're in the offensive zone so that's still confusing.

I've purposefully stayed away from my players in the discussion as I'm focused on the refs in this discussion. Since it keeps coming up though this is my advice to the players.

- You focus on the the little things, things you control like your turnovers, not letting a mistake affect the next play etc... and I'll worry about the big things (the refs, other players actions, etc....)
- I'm a firm believer that a good team that executes will nullify any ref or other team situation.
- Our team has their issues with unforced turnovers, missed layups and such. I take responsibility for it and ensure the players do as well. They have and continue to improve on it. That puts me into a spot to have to begin to deal with the big things I mentioned above, thus my questions.