Tim Higgins

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not know about you, but when the game is over, I do not blow the whistle and make an additional call. As a matter of fact when I think the game is over, I might indicate the game is over.

But apparently that was the whole problem here. For some reason, they thought the game was over when it wasn't. Making one of the calls in this play, then finding out it was after the buzzer, would have been infinitely better than what actually happened.

[APG]

Originally Posted by jbduke

Could you elaborate on why you think a travel wasn't called by the C?

If the center saw the whole play (I don't think he did; I think he looked away for a moment after the SJU player gained control), why wouldn't he have a travel there? He has to assume that the player is in bounds, and he hasn't heard a horn or seen an LED light. If you move the sideline over another foot, it's an obvious travel.

Because I believe the new lead (after the turnover) would have the best view of when the dribble ended as opposed to the center who wouldn't have a clear view of the gather because the player gathered it on the side furthest from him. This is a call the new L and even the new T should have made.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by LeeBallanfant

In the video, Timmy managed to beat the young guy (Walton) in the race to the locker room.

+1...Nice!

If you but a different face and name on Tim Higgins right now and had him go to camp nobody would hire him. It is so hard for guys to say goodbye especially with the money out there...this is a tough call for the assigner to let veteran (Final Four) officials go.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

And as an official, it does not matter one bit that the coaches didn't coach until the end of the game (whatever that means). Bottom line is that was a REALLY bad miss at the end of the game by this crew. We all miss calls but one of the main points that they guy who trained me stressed was to always officiate to the end of the game. It seems that this crew did not do that today.

This really can't be argued imo also. They screwed up and that fact won't change. They also deserve the flak they're getting for their officiating mistake. What they don't deserve is the personal crap some people are throwing at them. Saying their careers should be over for something like this is just plain ridiculous imo, especially when it comes from so-called fellow officials who have never worked on a stage like that.

Officials are human, not machines.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by KMBReferee

Here's the video. I wish I knew how to embed it on this board.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Check it out again. You've got them reversed. As Jeff said, it was Burr's sideline with the play coming right at him.

In 3-person that sideline belongs to the trail. Since it's in transition should the lead help? Of course.

Walton had the clock, though. He could've called a travel and he should've known there was time left.

[biz]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Check it out again. You've got them reversed. As Jeff said, it was Burr's sideline with the play coming right at him.

Incorrect. On the prior FT Higgins is the L Burr is the T and Walton is the C. So on the ensuing throw in Burr is new L and Higgins is administering the throw in as the T. When posession changes (when the St. Johns player makes the steal) Now Higgins becomes the new L and Burr is the new T.

The problem might have been (no way to know for sure, of course) that the person who was in the best position to see the OOB was the new L (Higgins - he was right on the sideline with the play coming toward him) but as we all know that's not his line, but if you look at the replay that is from behind the basket the new T (Burr) is (for some reason) coming up the floor from the middle of the paint. He isn't in a good position to see his line.

I think this COULD be a case where in transition everyone needs to expand their coverage areas and cover each others backs to make sure that the crew gets the call right. Of course there's no way to know if this is truly what happened, but I could see this being the case.

Just my $.02

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

In 3-person that sideline belongs to the trail. Since it's in transition should the lead help? Of course.

Walton had the clock, though. He could've called a travel and he should've known there was time left.

Point of edification here, for me and I know we have discussed it BUT: When you have the "clock" at the end of a game, do you blow your whistle when time expires/horn sounds/LED light is shown? Early in my career I was told to always hit your whistle to signal the end of the game rather than just have to horn sound. Do you think that would have helped in this case? I did not see the "C" make any signal when the game was over. Since the "official" criticism was they stopped officiating a signal here would have helped abate that criticism. IMO, I would have liked to have seen the "C" come across with SOMETHING, either waving the game over, a travel or at very least an innocuous raised hand. Again, IMO, it looked like he THOUGHT something funky had happened but didn't know what and at least this would have given them a chance to huddle and sort things out before they left. Just pondering.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by biz

Incorrect. On the prior FT Higgins is the L Burr is the T and Walton is the C. So on the ensuing throw in Burr is new L and Higgins is administering the throw in as the T. When posession changes (when the St. Johns player makes the steal) Now Higgins becomes the new L and Burr is the new T.

The problem might have been (no way to know for sure, of course) that the person who was in the best position to see the OOB was the new L (Higgins - he was right on the sideline with the play coming toward him) but as we all know that's not his line, but if you look at the replay that is from behind the basket the new T (Burr) is (for some reason) coming up the floor from the middle of the paint. He isn't in a good position to see his line.

...

Because of this:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Why is Burr 94' from the throw-in? He is standing on the endline in the middle of the paint. He is no help on the play. If he had set up free throw line extended to help with the catch and any 3-point attempts he would have been in position to view the OOB.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Why is Burr 94' from the throw-in? He is standing on the endline in the middle of the paint. He is no help on the play. If he had set up free throw line extended to help with the catch and any 3-point attempts he would have been in position to view the OOB.

+1 I was wondering if it was a new mechanic thing. It looked like he went to the middle of the lane to get a good angle to officiate the long throw. But IMO, he would have had a better angle FT line extended. It would have given him a great look had there been a drive to the basket, would have given him great position to see if there was a foul (which I don't think there was) and put him in PRIMO position for the end of the game kerfluffel.

[biz]

Originally Posted by Judtech

+1 I was wondering if it was a new mechanic thing. It looked like he went to the middle of the lane to get a good angle to officiate the long throw. But IMO, he would have had a better angle FT line extended. It would have given him a great look had there been a drive to the basket, would have given him great position to see if there was a foul (which I don't think there was) and put him in PRIMO position for the end of the game kerfluffel.

Totally agree.

I wonder if Higgins swallowed his whistle because it techincally isn't his call?

I hope that's not the case, but it might be.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by biz

Incorrect. On the prior FT Higgins is the L Burr is the T and Walton is the C. So on the ensuing throw in Burr is new L and Higgins is administering the throw in as the T. When posession changes (when the St. Johns player makes the steal) Now Higgins becomes the new L and Burr is the new T.

Upon further review, you're completely right and I had 'em reversed.

Maybe Jeff was right. All those tubby white guys do look alike.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Judtech

Point of edification here, for me and I know we have discussed it BUT: When you have the "clock" at the end of a game, do you blow your whistle when time expires/horn sounds/LED light is shown? Early in my career I was told to always hit your whistle to signal the end of the game rather than just have to horn sound. Do you think that would have helped in this case? I did not see the "C" make any signal when the game was over. Since the "official" criticism was they stopped officiating a signal here would have helped abate that criticism. IMO, I would have liked to have seen the "C" come across with SOMETHING, either waving the game over, a travel or at very least an innocuous raised hand. Again, IMO, it looked like he THOUGHT something funky had happened but didn't know what and at least this would have given them a chance to huddle and sort things out before they left. Just pondering.

Yes. We always, ALWAYS have a whistle and either a stop-clock signal (if there's no shot) or a wave off if there is and it's too late. Obviously, if a shot's off in time, we have nothing until the shot either scores or doesn't (and if it doesn't we THEN blow a whistle).

I've noticed that NCAAM officials don't use their whistles as often as the NCAAW (or NFHS officials that I work with) do. Subs, for example, frequently come in without a whistle in NCAAM games that I see and I *always* whistle subs in and so do my partners.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Upon further review, you're completely right and I had 'em reversed.

Maybe Jeff was right. All those tubby white guys do look alike.

I thought maybe you were deleting old posts to keep yourself at 19999.

[26 Year Gap]

It very well could be a PCA issue. Both new L and new T certainly had a clear view in periphery of the LED. "Be late, be needed & be right" probably should have been employed here. "Thanks for saving my butt" is a phrase I have used on occasion when someone has gotten something in my PCA because I was either straight-lined or out of position.

If any of you guys know much about Sir Alex Ferguson, then you can imagine that the supervisor might just have employed the "hair dryer treatment" in the post-game.

Just re-watched. New L looks straight-lined by SJ player AND THE COACH WHO WAS WAY OUT OF HIS BOX. Plus, a Rutgers player may have been obstructing a clear view. There must be some other views that are not on the video because I cannot see the new T anywhere. Or even the end line.