Hand checking

[dsqrddgd909]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

By rule how? Fouls are not to be called unless there is displacement or some advantage is gained. They did not throw out all the other rules for foul calling because there is a description of a hand check. I only call a foul when the Rhythm, Speed, Balance, or Quickness is changed by the contact. If they play through it I let it go. At that level it is not difficult to have those things changed as I am sure the girls can barely stand and chew gum without falling down. Stop worrying about what an 8th Grade coach thinks anyway.

Peace

I agree that all contact is not a foul and that adv./disadv. applies. How am I supposed to interpret this and previous year's POE?

A. Hand checking.

1) Hand checking is any tactic using the hands or arms that allows a player, on offense or defense, to control (hold, impede, push, divert, slow or prevent) the movement of an opposing player. This is a good def. of adv/disadv
2) Hand checking is a foul and is not incidental contact.
3) Defensive players shall not have hand(s) on the offensive player. When a player has a hand on, two hands on or jabs a hand or forearm on an opponent, it is a foul. Seems to expand on what is said in 1) above

[just another ref]

Handchecking is used by the defender to measure the opponent. It allows the defender to supplement his sense of sight with his sense of touch to anticipate the movement of that opponent. Done properly it can provide a great advantage to the defender, even though the actual contact may be minimal.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

I agree that all contact is not a foul and that adv./disadv. applies. How am I supposed to interpret this and previous year's POE?

A. Hand checking.

1) Hand checking is any tactic using the hands or arms that allows a player, on offense or defense, to control (hold, impede, push, divert, slow or prevent) the movement of an opposing player. This is a good def. of adv/disadv
2) Hand checking is a foul and is not incidental contact.
3) Defensive players shall not have hand(s) on the offensive player. When a player has a hand on, two hands on or jabs a hand or forearm on an opponent, it is a foul. Seems to expand on what is said in 1) above

Here's another old NFHS POE on handchecking...

"Regardless of where it takes place on the floor, when a player continuously places a hand on an opposing player, it is a foul."

"When a player places both hands on an opponent, it is a foul."

And next year, no doubt we'll see a similar new POE because of all the officials that want to make up their own rules and ignore what the FED has been tellings to call for years.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

I agree that all contact is not a foul and that adv./disadv. applies. How am I supposed to interpret this and previous year's POE?

A. Hand checking.

1) Hand checking is any tactic using the hands or arms that allows a player, on offense or defense, to control (hold, impede, push, divert, slow or prevent) the movement of an opposing player. This is a good def. of adv/disadv
2) Hand checking is a foul and is not incidental contact.
3) Defensive players shall not have hand(s) on the offensive player. When a player has a hand on, two hands on or jabs a hand or forearm on an opponent, it is a foul. Seems to expand on what is said in 1) above

Rule 4-27-3 is an even better definition, IMO, of advantage/disadvantage.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

I agree that all contact is not a foul and that adv./disadv. applies. How am I supposed to interpret this and previous year's POE?

A. Hand checking.

1) Hand checking is any tactic using the hands or arms that allows a player, on offense or defense, to control (hold, impede, push, divert, slow or prevent) the movement of an opposing player. This is a good def. of adv/disadv
2) Hand checking is a foul and is not incidental contact.
3) Defensive players shall not have hand(s) on the offensive player. When a player has a hand on, two hands on or jabs a hand or forearm on an opponent, it is a foul. Seems to expand on what is said in 1) above

I don't think 1 is a definition. It does seem to say that it's not a foul unless there is an advantage.

Item 3 seems, to me, to say it's a foul regardless of advantage.

So, I think items 1 and 3 conflict.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I don't think 1 is a definition. It does seem to say that it's not a foul unless there is an advantage.

Item 3 seems, to me, to say it's a foul regardless of advantage.

So, I think items 1 and 3 conflict.

POEs are not rules. If they want to change the rule then change it. But until then incidental contact rules apply, I am not calling this just because someone touched. I am calling a foul when an advantage is gained, PERIOD.

At the Men's side also this is what we call an absolute, but still they ask for some level of RSBQ to call it. That is what I do and it works for me.

Peace

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

When I played (yes I played, and I played for a coach who was a H.S. basketball official himself (I have told the story before) and who's teams won 16 league championships in 21 years (I played on 2 of them), a defender did NOT put his hand(s) on the offensive player who is in control the ball for any reason. AND I still canNOT understand why a defender needs to put his hand(s) on the offensive player who is in control the ball. The player in control of the ball is right in front the defender to see and there is absolutely NO need for the defender to put his hand(s) on the player who is in control of the ball.

MTD, Sr.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

When I played (yes I played, and I played for a coach who was a H.S. basketball official himself (I have told the story before) and who's teams won 16 league championships in 21 years (I played on 2 of them), a defender did NOT put his hand(s) on the offensive player who is in control the ball for any reason. AND I still canNOT understand why a defender needs to put his hand(s) on the offensive player who is in control the ball. The player in control of the ball is right in front the defender to see and there is absolutely NO need for the defender to put his hand(s) on the player who is in control of the ball.

MTD, Sr.

+1

All it does is make it easier to re-direct, by having your hand in place already, if the ball handler decides to go in a direction you don't like.

[Judtech]

MARK - As a "serial hand checker" in college back in the day (when it was 'allowed') I can tell you that you can manipulate a ball handler occasionally based on pressure points on the hip. Plus, if you keep your hand on their hip and they have the ball on one side of their body, you have reduced the number of options available to the ball handler.
Now in the modern era, I HATE calling a "double hot stove" 40 feet from the basket when the ball handler is just standing there. But as I told more then one coach "I don't make the rules, I just enforce em".
Also, a certain former UCONN player has mastered the art of making the "hot stove touch" a "hot stove jab".

[BillyMac]

Places both hands on a ball-handler, it is a foul. Continuously places a hand on the ball-handler, it is a foul.
Continuously jabs a hand or forearm on a ball-handler, it is a foul. Remember RSBQ. If the dribbler’s
Rhythm, Speed, Balance, or Quickness are affected, we should have a hand-checking foul.