Hand checking

[cmhjordan23]

Let me start by saying that I know by rule hand checking is a foul. There are people that enforce it differently however. Player A dribbling down sideline around mid-court Player B defending has her hand on player A. Player B's arm is not fully extended. She is not forcing her out, impeding her progress forward or to the side and is not placing the offensive player as a disadvantage. I know by rule it's a foul, would you let it go? I did.

Coach didn't like it. 8th grade girls. My explanation to him was contact does not constitute a foul. Your player was not at a disadvantage and was allowed her normal path. Would anyone handle differently? Under the basket I might have called it differently(I didn't tell him that)

[JRutledge]

By rule how? Fouls are not to be called unless there is displacement or some advantage is gained. They did not throw out all the other rules for foul calling because there is a description of a hand check. I only call a foul when the Rhythm, Speed, Balance, or Quickness is changed by the contact. If they play through it I let it go. At that level it is not difficult to have those things changed as I am sure the girls can barely stand and chew gum without falling down. Stop worrying about what an 8th Grade coach thinks anyway.

Peace

[Adam]

I pretty much agree with Rut, but let me add that with hand checking it's sometimes difficult to tell if there's any advantage or redirection going on. If she leaves the hand on for a while, I'm likely to be forced to assume it's a foul.

There's no need for it to be there, and once you call it they'll make it easier for you.

[tref]

If the "hand check" doesn't affect ball handlers RSBQ nor puts them at a disadvantage, by rule, how can it be a foul?

Why would you call it differently "under the basket?" Surely, more contact will occur the closer the action gets to the rim.

The only thing I'd do differently is call hand checks a push below the FT line extended.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by cmhjordan23

Under the basket I might have called it differently(I didn't tell him that)

That's absolutely ridiculous. You're really going to call a foul using as one of the criteria where it occurs on the court?

We've had almost yearly POE's from the NFHS telling us to call handchecking. That includes THIS year. We also have almost yearly POE's telling us not to make up our own rules. And that also includes THIS year. Obviously, though, it just ain't sinking in.

Lah me....

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I only call a foul when the Rhythm, Speed, Balance, or Quickness is changed by the contact.

Disagree. If they put a hand on and keep it on, I'm calling it. Every time.

[Mark Padgett]

A few centuries ago, when I was in HS, we played basketball in PE class. One of the kids said he was going to start putting his hand on the player he was defending all the time because he saw it happen on the NBA (since this was during the Cousy/Russell era, it was still the NBA, not the NBE) games on television. He started doing it and only stopped when another kid told him that if he did it to him, he'd knock his teeth down his throat. At my HS, that was not a joke. He stopped immediately.

A veteran official once told me to look at hand checking like coming to a Yield sign when entering onto the highway. If you affect either the speed or the direction of the oncoming traffic, you haven't yielded and you are illegal. If you don't affect either their speed or their direction when you enter, you are legal.

[bob jenkins]

Here we go again.

You are right that it's called differently in different areas / by different officials. Some subscribe to the "if it doesn't affect RSBQ, it's not a foul." Some say "it's legal when going east-west, but not north-south."

The clearest explanation is from NCAAW (paraphrased): There are two types of fouls. Contact which causes an advantage, and handchecking. Any handchecking (two hands, one hand for more than a "hot stove" touch, one hand repeatedly) is a foul, regardless of any effect on RSBQ.

But, how (or whether) to apply that to an 8th-grade girls game is open to interpretation.

[wfd21]

Call the hand-checks early and they will stop. Makes a cleaner, flowing game.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Disagree. If they put a hand on and keep it on, I'm calling it. Every time.

Even when they go right around the defender for the dunk? I hope you put him on the line for 1 shot...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Disagree. If they put a hand on and keep it on, I'm calling it. Every time.

OK. I still want an advantage and will continue to call it that way. For the record, I call three or four of these fouls easily a game personally when a team is pressuring the ball in the half-court. It does not take much, but if a player beats the hands put on them I am still not calling a foul. The incidental contact rules did not change all of a sudden for this foul.

Peace

[cmhjordan23]

I don't care about what the coach thinks. I stopped caring long ago. Just looking for an opinion. Basically to reaffirm I made the correct call.In Wisconsin before the start of the season, hand-checking was a point of emphasis, but I still wouldn't call this a foul. Side note- there are some pretty talented 8th grade teams in my area, both boys and girls.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

Even when they go right around the defender for the dunk? I hope you put him on the line for 1 shot...

Not really the problem in the OP, though, where the dribbler was moving down the sideline around midcourt.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by cmhjordan23

Side note- there are some pretty talented 8th grade teams in my area, both boys and girls.

Just because you have some talented teams does not mean they can play the same level of a high school or college player either. They just are not as coordinated and savvy.

Don't be so offended when the reality is that most coaches at this level are clueless about what is or is not a foul. Again, you mentioned the level.

Peace

[cmhjordan23]

The only reason I said I might call it different undereneath is the play there is different. Underneath handchecks are more likely to impede offense and cause them to be at a disadvantage. If I have the same exact play underneath as on the sideline, of course I'm not going to call it. I guess sometimes I misinterpret what I am actually trying to say. Sorry.