Team Control/Throw In After Made FG

JW100 · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 25, 2011, 12:50pm

Let me preface this with I am not an official, but a former college coach at a HS county final last night. I am certain a mistake was made in this situation but maybe somebody can clarify for me. A1 is taking the ball out of bounds after a made basket. While he is holding the ball attempting to inbound and clearly has not released the ball yet, A2 is called for a foul for pushing off to get open against B1. Both teams were in the double bonus situation. However, B1 was NOT awarded 2 free throws. I have always been under the impression that in HS basketball, team control does not begin until the ball is inbounded. At the time of the foul there was 1:30 left in a tie game so obviously a huge play. I happened to see the exact same scenario with :17 seconds left in a 1 point game on Saturday and the team/B1 was correctly (or I think correctly) awarded 2 free throws. I asked the coach after the game about it and he said the official told him it was a team control foul. That official also happens to work college games and in those games he would be correct. Maybe uniformity in this rule would be a good thing since in many county and state tourney games you have many guys who work D3/D2/etc on these high school games.

Thanks.

reffish · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 25, 2011, 12:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JW100

Let me preface this with I am not an official, but a former college coach at a HS county final last night. I am certain a mistake was made in this situation but maybe somebody can clarify for me. A1 is taking the ball out of bounds after a made basket. While he is holding the ball attempting to inbound and clearly has not released the ball yet, A2 is called for a foul for pushing off to get open against B1. Both teams were in the double bonus situation. However, B1 was NOT awarded 2 free throws. I have always been under the impression that in HS basketball, team control does not begin until the ball is inbounded. At the time of the foul there was 1:30 left in a tie game so obviously a huge play. I happened to see the exact same scenario with :17 seconds left in a 1 point game on Saturday and the team/B1 was correctly (or I think correctly) awarded 2 free throws. I asked the coach after the game about it and he said the official told him it was a team control foul. That official also happens to work college games and in those games he would be correct. Maybe uniformity in this rule would be a good thing since in many county and state tourney games you have many guys who work D3/D2/etc on these high school games.

Thanks.

I couldn't agree with you more; uniformity on these types of plays would increase call accuracy. I will contact the assignor of these games and inform them of the incorrect application of rules. In addition, I assure you that these officials will not be assigned playoff games next year. If there is anything else I can do to help the situation, please contact me. Thank you.

tref · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 25, 2011, 12:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JW100

I have always been under the impression that in HS basketball, team control does not begin until the ball is inbounded.

You are correct, but keep in mind that t/c begins when a team has possession after the throw-in has legally ended. The ball merely being inbounded does not equate to t/c.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jw100

maybe uniformity in this rule would be a good thing

+1

bob jenkins · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 25, 2011, 01:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

If your account is correct, the officials mis-applied the rule. It is not a team control foul under either NFHS or NCAA rules.

It IS a TC foul under NCAA rules.

Jurassic Referee · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 25, 2011, 01:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JW100

I am certain a mistake was made in this situation but maybe somebody can clarify for me. A1 is taking the ball out of bounds after a made basket. While he is holding the ball attempting to inbound and clearly has not released the ball yet, A2 is called for a foul for pushing off to get open against B1. Both teams were in the double bonus situation. However, B1 was NOT awarded 2 free throws. I have always been under the impression that in HS basketball, team control does not begin until the ball is inbounded. At the time of the foul there was 1:30 left in a tie game so obviously a huge play. I asked the coach after the game about it and he said the official told him it was a team control foul. That official also happens to work college games and in those games he would be correct. Maybe uniformity in this rule would be a good thing since in many county and state tourney games you have many guys who work D3/D2/etc on these high school games.

If your account is correct, the officials mis-applied the rule. It is not a team control foul.

tref · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 25, 2011, 01:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

If your account is correct, the officials mis-applied the rule. It is not a team control foul under either NFHS or NCAA rules.

JR t/c does exist during the throw-in in the NCAA game.

Jurassic Referee · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 25, 2011, 01:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It IS a TC foul under NCAA rules.

As soon as I wrote that, I went back and fixed it.

You're quick.

JW100 · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 25, 2011, 01:03pm

Ok Jurassic, so even in college B1 should have been awarded free throws. I thought in college it was considered team control when the inbounder was still holding the ball attempting the throw in and thus no free throws were awarded.

JW100 · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 25, 2011, 01:04pm

Ok Jurassic and Bob you clarified that. You are trying to confuse me even more!!

Jurassic Referee · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 25, 2011, 01:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JW100

Ok Jurassic, so even in college B1 should have been awarded free throws. I thought in college it was considered team control when the inbounder was still holding the ball attempting the throw in and thus no free throws were awarded.

See above. I mis-applied my original response.

No team control foul in high school; team control foul in college.

tref · #11 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 25, 2011, 01:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

See above. I mis-applied my original response.

No team control foul in high school; team control foul in college.

What about in the NBA?

APG · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 25, 2011, 01:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref

What about in the NBA?

Offensive foul

Mark Padgett · #13 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 25, 2011, 01:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref

What about in the NBA?

In the NBE, free throws are allowed only if the fouled player is a superstar - rule 1-1-1.

Jurassic Referee · #14 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 25, 2011, 01:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref

What about in the NBA?

I can screw up enough NFHS and NCAA rules without trying to guess what the NBA rule is too. And please don't ask about FIBA.

JW100 · #15 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 25, 2011, 01:14pm

All I know is in FIBA regardless of which way the call went coins would have been thrown at the officials by the fans

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