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Old Thu Nov 19, 2009, 11:10am
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Question Team Control Established on Throw In (NFHS)

When is team control established on a throw in? There is no team control on the throw in (NFHS Rule 4-12-6) and the throw in ends when it is legally touched (NFHS Rule 4-42-5). Is team control established when throw in ends or when a player gains control?

Reason for this questions is this situation: which their appears to be contradicting case book situations for.

When a ball is thrown in from out of bounds by A1 is touched by A2 or tapped by A2 from the frontcourt into the back court (never controlled by A2 ) can someone from A2's team be the first to touch it in back court?

Look at NFHS 2009-10 Case Book 9.9.1 Situation D and 4.12.6 (b). These two situations seem to contradict each other. Please help!!
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Old Thu Nov 19, 2009, 11:15am
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The difference is that in 9.9.1D, the player catches the ball in the air after it was touched. When it is touched, the throwin ends. When he catches it, player control and team control are established. Since he has FC status when he catches it (he jumped from the FC), it's a violation when he lands in the BC. The exception only applies if the airborne catch is the touch that ends the throwin.

In 4.12.6B, player/team control isn't established until the ball and player are both in the BC.

Does this help?
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Old Thu Nov 19, 2009, 11:19am
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Originally Posted by pop_ey View Post
Look at NFHS 2009-10 Case Book 9.9.1 Situation D and 4.12.6 (b). These two situations seem to contradict each other. Please help!!
I don't see the contradiction. 9.9.1 is about a backcourt violation: the throw-in ends when B touches the ball, and that ends the exception to the BC provisions.

4.12.6 is about a backcourt count, which doesn't begin until you have team control after a throw-in.

In both cases, team control after a throw-in begins with player control.
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Old Thu Nov 19, 2009, 02:06pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
The difference is that in 9.9.1D, the player catches the ball in the air after it was touched. When it is touched, the throwin ends. When he catches it, player control and team control are established. Since he has FC status when he catches it (he jumped from the FC), it's a violation when he lands in the BC. The exception only applies if the airborne catch is the touch that ends the throwin.

In 4.12.6B, player/team control isn't established until the ball and player are both in the BC.

Does this help?
Thanks, your explanation cleared it up for me.
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Old Thu Nov 19, 2009, 05:10pm
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Just a generally useful tip: Often the answer to exactly when some situation or condition begins and ends, like team control and player control, is found in Rule 4. If you haven't had a good look at Rule 4 yet, you'd be well served to read it thoroughly before carrying on with any other rules.
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Old Fri Mar 12, 2010, 01:07pm
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Another team control question:

Try by A1... A2 or B1 commits a foul.

If the ball goes in, basket counts, in both situations correct? And are there any free throws shot or simply ball out of bounds at spot and no free throws because no team control on a try or tap for field goal?

Is the above all correct?
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Old Fri Mar 12, 2010, 01:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo View Post
Another team control question:

Try by A1... A2 or B1 commits a foul.

If the ball goes in, basket counts, in both situations correct? And are there any free throws shot or simply ball out of bounds at spot and no free throws because no team control on a try or tap for field goal?

Is the above all correct?
Basket counts. If either team is in the bonus, shoot the bonus free throws. If not, if:

A2 fouls, then Team B will have an unrestricted throw in on the endline
B1 fouls, then Team A will inbound the ball at the spot out of bounds nearest to where the foul occurred.
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Old Fri Mar 12, 2010, 01:52pm
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Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo View Post
Another team control question:

Try by A1
Insufficient information to answer the question.
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Old Sat Mar 13, 2010, 12:15pm
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Sorry Bob. Basically, you shoot free throws on any foul if either team is in the bonus when there is no team control ... and there is no team control on a try or a tap?

In this case there was a try, tap (attempt for a fg) and if you have a foul on either team during the try you would shot if in the bonus. Correct?
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Old Sat Mar 13, 2010, 01:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo View Post
There is no team control on a try or a tap?
Johnny Ringo: Be careful how you word your posts. There are rookies out there that may misconstrue what you post.

NFHS 4-12-3-A: Team control continues until: The ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.
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Old Sat Mar 13, 2010, 01:51pm
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Correct. Sorry about that ... Once the ball is in flight (for a try or a tap) - team control stops and any foul after that point results in free throws either way if the bonus is reached.

Would that be a correct statement?
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Old Sat Mar 13, 2010, 04:44pm
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I tell the HS kids I train to officiate to memorize these two statements:

1) during a period of no team control, team control is established when a player establishes player control

2) player control is defined as a player holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds

I find these statements most helpful.
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Old Sat Mar 13, 2010, 05:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo View Post
Correct. Sorry about that ... Once the ball is in flight (for a try or a tap) - team control stops and any foul after that point results in free throws either way if the bonus is reached.

Would that be a correct statement?
Yes, that's correct. Your OP just said "during a try" so it didn't contain the needed information (was the ball in flight or not) in the case where the foul was by A2.

In the case where the foul was by B1, the OP also didn't say whether the foul was against airborne shooter A1.

Last edited by bob jenkins; Sat Mar 13, 2010 at 05:29pm.
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Old Sat Mar 13, 2010, 06:58pm
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Not Sure That is Right?

[QUOTE=Snaqwells;637095]The difference is that in 9.9.1D, the player catches the ball in the air after it was touched. When it is touched, the throwin ends. When he catches it, player control and team control are established. Since he has FC status when he catches it (he jumped from the FC), it's a violation when he lands in the BC. The exception only applies if the airborne catch is the touch that ends the throwin.

In 4.12.6B, player/team control isn't established until the ball and player are both in the BC.

Does this help?


Not sure this is correct High School wise. When touched, yes throw in ends. This DOES end the throwin, but DOESN'T establish Team Control. He caught the ball in the air, so where he started doesn't matter when it is thrown from out of bounds. He has Team Control in Backcourt. 10 Second Count begins. NO Backcourt Violation.
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Old Sat Mar 13, 2010, 07:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags43 View Post
[
Not sure this is correct High School wise. When touched, yes throw in ends. This DOES end the throwin, but DOESN'T establish Team Control. He caught the ball in the air, so where he started doesn't matter when it is thrown from out of bounds. He has Team Control in Backcourt. 10 Second Count begins. NO Backcourt Violation.
You're wrong as per NFHS case book play 9.9.1SitD as already cited above. It is a backcourt violation.
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