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-   -   Team Control/Throw In After Made FG (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/63363-team-control-throw-after-made-fg.html)

JW100 Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:50pm

Team Control/Throw In After Made FG
 
Let me preface this with I am not an official, but a former college coach at a HS county final last night. I am certain a mistake was made in this situation but maybe somebody can clarify for me. A1 is taking the ball out of bounds after a made basket. While he is holding the ball attempting to inbound and clearly has not released the ball yet, A2 is called for a foul for pushing off to get open against B1. Both teams were in the double bonus situation. However, B1 was NOT awarded 2 free throws. I have always been under the impression that in HS basketball, team control does not begin until the ball is inbounded. At the time of the foul there was 1:30 left in a tie game so obviously a huge play. I happened to see the exact same scenario with :17 seconds left in a 1 point game on Saturday and the team/B1 was correctly (or I think correctly) awarded 2 free throws. I asked the coach after the game about it and he said the official told him it was a team control foul. That official also happens to work college games and in those games he would be correct. Maybe uniformity in this rule would be a good thing since in many county and state tourney games you have many guys who work D3/D2/etc on these high school games.

Thanks.

reffish Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JW100 (Post 734226)
Let me preface this with I am not an official, but a former college coach at a HS county final last night. I am certain a mistake was made in this situation but maybe somebody can clarify for me. A1 is taking the ball out of bounds after a made basket. While he is holding the ball attempting to inbound and clearly has not released the ball yet, A2 is called for a foul for pushing off to get open against B1. Both teams were in the double bonus situation. However, B1 was NOT awarded 2 free throws. I have always been under the impression that in HS basketball, team control does not begin until the ball is inbounded. At the time of the foul there was 1:30 left in a tie game so obviously a huge play. I happened to see the exact same scenario with :17 seconds left in a 1 point game on Saturday and the team/B1 was correctly (or I think correctly) awarded 2 free throws. I asked the coach after the game about it and he said the official told him it was a team control foul. That official also happens to work college games and in those games he would be correct. Maybe uniformity in this rule would be a good thing since in many county and state tourney games you have many guys who work D3/D2/etc on these high school games.

Thanks.

I couldn't agree with you more; uniformity on these types of plays would increase call accuracy. I will contact the assignor of these games and inform them of the incorrect application of rules. In addition, I assure you that these officials will not be assigned playoff games next year. If there is anything else I can do to help the situation, please contact me. Thank you. :D

tref Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JW100 (Post 734226)
I have always been under the impression that in HS basketball, team control does not begin until the ball is inbounded.

You are correct, but keep in mind that t/c begins when a team has possession after the throw-in has legally ended. The ball merely being inbounded does not equate to t/c.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jw100 (Post 734226)
maybe uniformity in this rule would be a good thing

+1

bob jenkins Fri Feb 25, 2011 01:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 734231)
If your account is correct, the officials mis-applied the rule. It is not a team control foul under either NFHS or NCAA rules.

It IS a TC foul under NCAA rules.

Jurassic Referee Fri Feb 25, 2011 01:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JW100 (Post 734226)
I am certain a mistake was made in this situation but maybe somebody can clarify for me. A1 is taking the ball out of bounds after a made basket. While he is holding the ball attempting to inbound and clearly has not released the ball yet, A2 is called for a foul for pushing off to get open against B1. Both teams were in the double bonus situation. However, B1 was NOT awarded 2 free throws. I have always been under the impression that in HS basketball, team control does not begin until the ball is inbounded. At the time of the foul there was 1:30 left in a tie game so obviously a huge play. I asked the coach after the game about it and he said the official told him it was a team control foul. That official also happens to work college games and in those games he would be correct. Maybe uniformity in this rule would be a good thing since in many county and state tourney games you have many guys who work D3/D2/etc on these high school games.

If your account is correct, the officials mis-applied the rule. It is not a team control foul.

tref Fri Feb 25, 2011 01:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 734231)
If your account is correct, the officials mis-applied the rule. It is not a team control foul under either NFHS or NCAA rules.

JR t/c does exist during the throw-in in the NCAA game.

Jurassic Referee Fri Feb 25, 2011 01:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 734233)
It IS a TC foul under NCAA rules.

As soon as I wrote that, I went back and fixed it.

You're quick.:)

JW100 Fri Feb 25, 2011 01:03pm

Ok Jurassic, so even in college B1 should have been awarded free throws. I thought in college it was considered team control when the inbounder was still holding the ball attempting the throw in and thus no free throws were awarded.

JW100 Fri Feb 25, 2011 01:04pm

Ok Jurassic and Bob you clarified that. You are trying to confuse me even more!!

Jurassic Referee Fri Feb 25, 2011 01:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JW100 (Post 734237)
Ok Jurassic, so even in college B1 should have been awarded free throws. I thought in college it was considered team control when the inbounder was still holding the ball attempting the throw in and thus no free throws were awarded.

See above. I mis-applied my original response.:)

No team control foul in high school; team control foul in college.

tref Fri Feb 25, 2011 01:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 734240)
See above. I mis-applied my original response.:)

No team control foul in high school; team control foul in college.

What about in the NBA? :D

APG Fri Feb 25, 2011 01:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 734242)
What about in the NBA? :D

Offensive foul ;)

Mark Padgett Fri Feb 25, 2011 01:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 734242)
What about in the NBA? :D

In the NBE, free throws are allowed only if the fouled player is a superstar - rule 1-1-1. :D

Jurassic Referee Fri Feb 25, 2011 01:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 734242)
What about in the NBA? :D

I can screw up enough NFHS and NCAA rules without trying to guess what the NBA rule is too. And please don't ask about FIBA. :D

JW100 Fri Feb 25, 2011 01:14pm

All I know is in FIBA regardless of which way the call went coins would have been thrown at the officials by the fans


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