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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 11:10am
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the days of "it's not in my area so it's not my business" are over....get the call right is, and should be, the goal for officials...
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 11:17am
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Originally Posted by jeffpea View Post
the days of "it's not in my area so it's not my business" are over....get the call right is, and should be, the goal for officials...
Really!! Depending on the level of ball one works & what type of camps (if any) one attends, "dont call in my area" can be quite the norm

I always thought the goal was to officiate engaged matchups in our PCA while knowing where our partners are, the ball is & as many of the players on the court as possible. Hell, I even like to be aware when a sub gets up off the bench & heads to the table...
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Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 11:20am
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There are more reasons to leave this alone than to deal with it on the court; assuming you think it could possibly be a judgment call.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 11:24am
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Snaqs, is OOB violations a judgment call?
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Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 11:31am
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Originally Posted by tref View Post
Snaqs, is OOB violations a judgment call?
Nope, but backcourt violations can be due to the need to determine whether and when control is established.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 11:35am
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Ok, so making an IC on OOB is not an error in judgment, we just saw it wrong?
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Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 11:42am
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Originally Posted by tref View Post
Ok, so making an IC on OOB is not an error in judgment, we just saw it wrong?
Not sure where you're heading with this. Yes, you're right. OOB calls are judgment calls. Not sure what I was thinking.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 11:48am
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Originally Posted by Eastshire View Post
I'm from the "I'd like to look good, but I'd rather be right." camp.
+1

I believe the Golden Rule applies here. I tell every partner, if you think I kicked something, come talk to me. We'll compare what we saw.

Go talk with your partner. Besides, if you late that play go, you're only perpetuating the myth (or ignorance, really) that team control isn't considered in a backcourt violation.
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Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 11:48am
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Don't even get me started on the "Over and Back" call. It has been the most kicked rule I have seen this year. Really? Is it THAT hard!!
BUT I am not in the 100% sure camp. If I have information that I am 'pretty sure' the other official does not have (can't really put a percentage on it, but say over 85%) I am going to speak with them. Especially if I was a veteran with a rookie/newer partner. (Of course we had to 15+ year vets not know the rule last nite, but the 5 yr vet knew it!! Guess that is why he does College ball as well)
Ok, I will now retrun the soap box to its regular place!
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 11:59am
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Not sure where you're heading with this. Yes, you're right. OOB calls are judgment calls. Not sure what I was thinking.
I'm just saying, lets get it right.

Some have said dont help on judgment calls but we always help on OOB calls. Just wanted clarify if that was a judgment call.

In the OP its a competitive GJV game with :04 left in the 3rd Q & no negative reaction from the players/bench... play on. Afterall, they have 8 minutes to recover from the ICC, right
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Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 12:06pm
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Originally Posted by tref View Post
I'm just saying, lets get it right.

Some have said dont help on judgment calls but we always help on OOB calls. Just wanted clarify if that was a judgment call.

In the OP its a competitive GJV game with :04 left in the 3rd Q & no negative reaction from the players/bench... play on. Afterall, they have 8 minutes to recover from the ICC, right
No, I don't always help on OOB calls; only if I'm confident I saw something the calling official missed. Even then, some officials on this forum have different criteria for doing that.

To me, the BC call is closer to a travel call than an OOB call, especially when a determination of control is involved such as the OP. I have helped partners with this call; most recently on a throwin from the FC endline that landed 15 feet into the BC. Partner called the violation, I went and had a chat with her to discuss it. But if the pass and catch had been close enough that I thought she might have judged control was gained in the FC, I'd have let it go.
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Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 12:13pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
No, I don't always help on OOB calls; only if I'm confident I saw something the calling official missed. Even then, some officials on this forum have different criteria for doing that.

To me, the BC call is closer to a travel call than an OOB call, especially when a determination of control is involved such as the OP. I have helped partners with this call; most recently on a throwin from the FC endline that landed 15 feet into the BC. Partner called the violation, I went and had a chat with her to discuss it. But if the pass and catch had been close enough that I thought she might have judged control was gained in the FC, I'd have let it go.
That was a given

Makes sense.

I saw an NBA official head towards a partner after an IC on OOB which resulted in a huge negative "fan" reaction. The calling official didnt allow the helper to come all the way to him, he just said, "oh, you have it the other way?" hit the whistle & changed his call. It took all of 2 seconds & looked really good... trust! They must've pregamed "if I'm headed your way I'm 110% sure."
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Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 12:18pm
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Originally Posted by tref View Post
That was a given

Makes sense.

I saw an NBA official head towards a partner after an IC on OOB which resulted in a huge negative "fan" reaction. The calling official didnt allow the helper to come all the way to him, he just said, "oh, you have it the other way?" hit the whistle & changed his call. It took all of 2 seconds & looked really good... trust! They must've pregamed "if I'm headed your way I'm 110% sure."
Right, that's the approach some on here take. "If you come to me, I'll assume you're right so I'm changing the call."
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 12:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
No, I don't always help on OOB calls; only if I'm confident I saw something the calling official missed. Even then, some officials on this forum have different criteria for doing that.

To me, the BC call is closer to a travel call than an OOB call, especially when a determination of control is involved such as the OP. I have helped partners with this call; most recently on a throwin from the FC endline that landed 15 feet into the BC. Partner called the violation, I went and had a chat with her to discuss it. But if the pass and catch had been close enough that I thought she might have judged control was gained in the FC, I'd have let it go.
There's so many moving parts to BC that it's sometime like traveling and sometimes like OOB.

For instance, if you as L have the ball down in your corner and see a deflection from B and A clearly recovers in the BC, you're going to correct it like an OOB. On the other hand, if A is right around the line, you have a harder time. Did you partner notice the touch and A just got to it before it went across or did he not see the touch and A wasn't the last to touch in the front court.

I think if A recovers it near the line you're just going to have to trust your partner.
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Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 12:27pm
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Originally Posted by Eastshire View Post
There's so many moving parts to BC that it's sometime like traveling and sometimes like OOB.

For instance, if you as L have the ball down in your corner and see a deflection from B and A clearly recovers in the BC, you're going to correct it like an OOB. On the other hand, if A is right around the line, you have a harder time. Did you partner notice the touch and A just got to it before it went across or did he not see the touch and A wasn't the last to touch in the front court.

I think if A recovers it near the line you're just going to have to trust your partner.
Exactly, and the OP was more like traveling in that he couldn't tell if control was established in the FC.
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