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-   -   Judgement v Missed Rule (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/62595-judgement-v-missed-rule.html)

Eastshire Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:20am

Judgement v Missed Rule
 
I was working a GJV game last night with a rookie partner. As L, I'm administering an endline throw-in. A1 throws the ball towards the sideline. A2 makes a diving bat to keep the ball inbounds (no control imo). A3, who obviously thinks she cannot go into the back court, awkwardly attempts to get the ball while remaining in the FC but ultimately goes into the BC. I do not believe A3 ever gains control before my partner whistles a BC violation.

Now this call is out of my primary (I'm only seeing it since it was near my sideline in the first place) and for all I know at the time, my partner feels A3 gained control before going into the backcourt. Do you confer with him or just go with his call?

I went with his call and talked to him about it afterward. He did indeed kick it as he didn't have A3 gaining control.

Indianaref Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:23am

On some violations (like this one), I have conferred with my partner and report to him what I saw and the rule and let him decide from there.

tref Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastshire (Post 730644)
Now this call is out of my primary (I'm only seeing it since it was near my sideline in the first place) and for all I know at the time, my partner feels A3 gained control before going into the backcourt. Do you confer with him or just go with his call?

Depends. Is it a gamer or a play they can recover from?

6 seconds left in a 2 point game, I'd go to him with info & it's up to them if they want to go with an IW to get it right.

3:50 left in the 1st Q I've got nothing unless they ask...

Eastshire Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 730647)
Depends. Is it a gamer or a play they can recover from?

6 seconds left in a 2 point game, I'd go to him with info & it's up to them if they want to go with an IW to get it right.

3:50 left in the 1st Q I've got nothing unless they ask...

In this case it was 0:04 left in the 3rd of a close game.

jeffpea Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:28am

imho, i do not want my partner to "kick a rule"...part of being a good partner is to prevent that from happening (I would certainly want my partner to help me if I were in a situation were I was not-appyling a rule correctly)....

when you talk about it/share information on the court, you have a chance to correct it. when you talk about it/share info in the locker room....it's too late!!!

Nevadaref Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:29am

Don't ever question your partner on a judgment call.

If your partner kicks a rule and asks for help, you can offer your knowledge and let him decide if he needs to change it. Otherwise, it's his call and you should stay out of it.

Adam Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:33am

You've got to be 100% sure he kicked a rule before even talking to him, IMO. If you think there's a possibility that he judged it differently (and you did here), then let it go.

tref Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 730650)
Don't ever question your partner on a judgment call.

If your partner kicks a rule and asks for help, you can offer your knowledge and let him decide if he needs to change it. Otherwise, it's his call and you should stay out of it.

2 wrongs make it right?
If one chooses to go THAT route, dont bring it up in post-game!
Cant stand working with or listening to "those guys" that do nothing to assist, but wanna show off after the fact. Oh you fancy huh?

As Jeff said...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffpea (Post 730649)
when you talk about it/share information on the court, you have a chance to correct it. when you talk about it/share info in the locker room....it's too late!!!


Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastshire (Post 730648)
In this case it was 0:04 left in the 3rd of a close game.

Thats tough, did we have a huge negative reaction? Or did they buy his act?
Afterall, it was a GJV. j/k

hawkeyegb Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:38am

keep in mind guys that he said it was a rookie....I am more apt to offer advice to a rookie in this type of situation then I would a person who has been on the court 3-5 years.

Indianaref Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 730654)
You've got to be 100% sure he kicked a rule before even talking to him, IMO. If you think there's a possibility that he judged it differently (and you did here), then let it go.

Yes! I should have added that I would have to be 100%.

referee99 Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:45am

Fortunately, 97% of people in the gym knew it was a backcourt violation.
 
... I would try to get to my rookie partner's earshot and ask "did we establish team control??", prompting him to dialog. I would offer information and encourage/let them decide.

Eastshire Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 730658)
2 wrongs make it right?
If one chooses to go THAT route, dont bring it up in post-game!
Cant stand working with or listening to "those guys" that do nothing to assist, but wanna show off after the fact. Oh you fancy huh?

I don't think bringing it up later is showing off, particularly in the situation of working with a rookie. In this case, he specifically asked me in pre-game to bring up anything I may have noticed during the game.

Quote:

Thats tough, did we have a huge negative reaction? Or did they buy his act?
Afterall, it was a GJV. j/k
There was virtually no reaction from the coaches and players. The fans on the other hand were screaming "You have to have control!" Where in the world do you find fans that understand both the backcourt rule and that there's no team control during a throw in?

tref Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastshire (Post 730671)
I don't think bringing it up later is showing off, particularly in the situation of working with a rookie. In this case, he specifically asked me in pre-game to bring up anything I may have noticed during the game.



There was virtually no reaction from the coaches and players. The fans on the other hand were screaming "You have to have control!" Where in the world do you find fans that understand both the backcourt rule and that there's no team control during a throw in?

You obviously dont know some of the guys that I know... many people are not from the "if you dont look good, I dont look good" camp.

Play on!

Eastshire Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 730672)
You obviously dont know some of the guys that I know... many people are not from the "if you dont look good, I dont look good" camp.

Play on!

I'm from the "I'd like to look good, but I'd rather be right." camp.

Adam Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:03am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indianaref (Post 730663)
Yes! I should have added that I would have to be 100%.

Right, and it seems here there was some doubt as to the nature of his error. If there's even a chance it might be judgment, as you indicated, I'll let it go and ask him later what he saw on that play. Only if there's zero chance that it was a judgment error will I approach him during the game.


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