I'm thinking about giving it up.

[PIAA REF]

Every Year we discuss on here about who does 3 and who uses 2 whistle crews for varsity. I am just so shocked that some areas still even consider using 2 on any varsity games. We have been doing 3 on all varsity games in my district in PA for I believe 6 years now for all varsity contests. Playoffs and bigger schools had went to 3 a few years before that. THere are just parts of the court that a 2 whistle crew cannot cover to the fullest. Fouls eventually get harder when players realize certain things can't be seen. I know money is an issue, but you would think that AD's and even school board members would look at the safety of their student athletes when making these decisions. My district really stepped years ago when negotiating our contracts. We went to various school districts, talked to reps for the district and presented why 3-man (woman) crews are so vital to the game. It worked, not right away but soon all schools followed suit. Best of luck to all of you, but I encourage you as officials in the same region to keep fighting for 3 whistle crews. It is so much better for the game!

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by PIAA REF

Every Year we discuss on here about who does 3 and who uses 2 whistle crews for varsity. I am just so shocked that some areas still even consider using 2 on any varsity games. We have been doing 3 on all varsity games in my district in PA for I believe 6 years now for all varsity contests. Playoffs and bigger schools had went to 3 a few years before that. THere are just parts of the court that a 2 whistle crew cannot cover to the fullest. Fouls eventually get harder when players realize certain things can't be seen. I know money is an issue, but you would think that AD's and even school board members would look at the safety of their student athletes when making these decisions. My district really stepped years ago when negotiating our contracts. We went to various school districts, talked to reps for the district and presented why 3-man (woman) crews are so vital to the game. It worked, not right away but soon all schools followed suit. Best of luck to all of you, but I encourage you as officials in the same region to keep fighting for 3 whistle crews. It is so much better for the game!

+1

The schools in our area which went from three-man ("man" used here generically to designate "human", not necessarily "not woman", that way I don't have to always say "-person") to two- apparently did so not on the recommendation of the athletic directors, in fact in spite of the AD's fervent insistence. It was a case where the administrators above them elected to go to two-man.
To the ones who count the beans goes the final decision.

[jophyal]

I agree with the thre man crews being more advantageous... I am in my first year of recieving three man varsity games and notice the difference. I notice the speed of the game is faster but I am able slow down my primaries so much better than in two man. I also teach and foresee budget cuts but here in Austin area, A.D.'s are more apt to stay with three man crews. Good luck Rich and take your time in deciding.

[DesMoines]

I get really sick of hearing about ADs and Boards trying to make a financial argument for cutting back on the number of officials on games.

As has been well documented in the last month (Louisiana thread, among others), pay rates vary. But the overall difference in a school or athletic budget between 2 and 3 officials for HS Varsity contests over the course of the season is negligible.

Assuming they don't raise the game fee, the total savings might (MIGHT) be $1,000 for 11 V double headers over the season -- that's in Iowa, if you're working at a school district that pays well. But if you're taking away the 3rd set of eyes, you darn well better be paying the other two people more or you're not going to get people who want to do it. The bottom line savings will end up being $500 or less... and you're gonna get exactly what you pay for.

Sorry for the rant, I just hate the bean counter argument.

Who posted the quote, "I don't do this for the money, but I wouldn't do it for free either..." ??? Love that.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by DesMoines

I get really sick of hearing about ADs and Boards trying to make a financial argument for cutting back on the number of officials on games.

As has been well documented in the last month (Louisiana thread, among others), pay rates vary. But the overall difference in a school or athletic budget between 2 and 3 officials for HS Varsity contests over the course of the season is negligible.

Assuming they don't raise the game fee, the total savings might (MIGHT) be $1,000 for 11 V double headers over the season -- that's in Iowa, if you're working at a school district that pays well. But if you're taking away the 3rd set of eyes, you darn well better be paying the other two people more or you're not going to get people who want to do it. The bottom line savings will end up being $500 or less... and you're gonna get exactly what you pay for.

Sorry for the rant, I just hate the bean counter argument.

Who posted the quote, "I don't do this for the money, but I wouldn't do it for free either..." ??? Love that.

Double that unless the schools are only fielding one varsity basketball team.

[jalons]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Double that unless the schools are only fielding one varsity basketball team.

I only know of two conferences in Iowa that split girls and boys games. The majority of schools play G/B doubleheaders.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jalons

I only know of two conferences in Iowa that split girls and boys games. The majority of schools play G/B doubleheaders.

I know the CIML splits, but the schools in the conference I played in do not. But that's beside the point. The point is, I missed the "double header" part and was thinking varsity games.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

We use the varsity doubleheader format here too and do everything in two whistle (except certain tournament championships and playoffs from the quarterfinals onward).Actually the school I scorekeep for had the same set of referees in the quarterfinal round two out of three years.Good crew but what are the odds on working the same school out of your area that much?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

Good crew but what are the odds on working the same school out of your area that much?

Not sure, we'd have to ask Charlie Epps.

[IowaMike]

Originally Posted by jalons

I only know of two conferences in Iowa that split girls and boys games. The majority of schools play G/B doubleheaders.

The MAC still splits boys and girls; so does the WaMac. The Cedar Valley went to more combined girl/boy doubles this year and I think they are going to do it exclusively next year.

I agree with others that doing a sophomore boys game two person is much more difficult than working a three person varsity boys game. It isn't the amount of running either; it's the fact that you just aren't going to see everything. Working three person is just superior in terms of coverage. Funny, several other guys I have worked with this year have mentioned how difficult it is getting to work those soph boys games two person as well. If these schools I work at where you always have to work two games, either JV/Varsity or girl/boy double, went back to two person I would give it up and just stick to baseball.

[DesMoines]

+1 IowaMike

Last Friday I somehow got assigned to work a 3-man crew for a single JV game here in Des Moines. The check was $35 (vs $45 for 2-man), but it was a 4:45 start, done by 6:05. Home for dinner.

Loved it.

[zm1283]

I figured up the 2 vs. 3 money difference for an average school here.

11 home games x 2 (Girls and Boys). Mileage not counted because it shouldn't be any different.

2-Man = $220 per night x 22 nights = $4,840

3-Man = $330 per night x 22 nights = $7,260

$2,420 difference. That is property taxes on about two houses around here. It looks like a lot, but it's pretty negligible.

[DesMoines]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Double that unless the schools are only fielding one varsity basketball team.

Yep... my numbers were working doubleheaders. About the only time we see JV/V Boys is at the end of the season (like now) when the girls are done and the boys still have a week left.

Even so, say it happens a couple times a year, it's still peanuts.

OT - I try not to think too hard about what I make an hour. I'll average ~$75 for working a G/B doubleheader (as low as $60 as high as $90 - and no gas $$). So say I make the 2+ hr trek each way to a small school in rural Iowa, I might net $10/hr... but probably not.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by DesMoines

Yep... my numbers were working doubleheaders. About the only time we see JV/V Boys is at the end of the season (like now) when the girls are done and the boys still have a week left.

Even so, say it happens a couple times a year, it's still peanuts.

OT - I try not to think too hard about what I make an hour. I'll average ~$75 for working a G/B doubleheader (as low as $60 as high as $90 - and no gas $$). So say I make the 2+ hr trek each way to a small school in rural Iowa, I might net $10/hr... but probably not.

They still working 2 in those rural schools?

[DesMoines]

They still working 2 in those rural schools?

Not in the Bluegrass, NCC, Raccoon, HOI or any place else I've been this year.

Anybody else, Iowans?