The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 15, 2011, 12:21pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
This thread kinda warped over time, did it not? The OP, I think, recognized the relative importance of the final seconds in the scheme of things. He also feels, apparently, that a bad no-call is better than a bad call. I would agree. But what I get out of the OP is that he is asking if he should change his standard of making a call in the final seconds to help avoid making a bad call in this circumstance. I think most of us agree the answer to this is no.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 15, 2011, 12:29pm
Aleve Titles to Others
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: East Westchester of the Southern Conference
Posts: 5,381
Send a message via AIM to 26 Year Gap
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmhjordan23 View Post
I know the philosophy is that a foul in the 1st QT is a foul in the 4th QT. 8th grade boys, 3rd place game tied with 5 sec left. Team A drives the endline (not very hard) and team B was in legal guarding position until he gave one of those hip checks. In the bonus, hits 1 and team goes on to win by 1. Coach didn't say much about it, but the fans were definitely on us. Saying that was weak. You hate to call a foul like that to decide the game but it is still a foul. I know the proper thing is to call it (my partners call), but would anybody let that go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
This thread kinda warped over time, did it not? The OP, I think, recognized the relative importance of the final seconds in the scheme of things. He also feels, apparently, that a bad no-call is better than a bad call. I would agree. But what I get out of the OP is that he is asking if he should change his standard of making a call in the final seconds to help avoid making a bad call in this circumstance. I think most of us agree the answer to this is no.
Any foul call in the dying seconds is going to elicit fan response and bench response in a close game. I know it is HTBT, but the description in the OP matches up to: blowing the whistle = good call, right call; and, not blowing the whistle = choking or swallowing the whistle.
__________________
Never hit a piņata if you see hornets flying out of it.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 15, 2011, 12:31pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,262
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
This thread kinda warped over time, did it not? The OP, I think, recognized the relative importance of the final seconds in the scheme of things. He also feels, apparently, that a bad no-call is better than a bad call. I would agree. But what I get out of the OP is that he is asking if he should change his standard of making a call in the final seconds to help avoid making a bad call in this circumstance. I think most of us agree the answer to this is no.
A bad no-call is just as bad as a bad call. Either way you've kicked it.

Your standard for fouls needs to be the same from tip to final horn. The idea that a correctly called foul takes the game away from the players needs to be rejected for the mistaken belief that it is.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 15, 2011, 12:36pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastshire View Post
A bad no-call is just as bad as a bad call. Either way you've kicked it.
Absolutely!
__________________
I gotta new attitude!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 15, 2011, 12:51pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastshire View Post
A bad no-call is just as bad as a bad call. Either way you've kicked it.
Disagree.

It's better to miss something that happened than to "see" something that didn't.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 15, 2011, 12:54pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Disagree.

It's better to miss something that happened than to "see" something that didn't.
Yep, and it's true at all points of the game, not just the final moments.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 15, 2011, 12:55pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,183
INC vs. IC

They both have the exact same thing in common... "incorrect."
__________________
I gotta new attitude!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 15, 2011, 12:56pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,262
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Disagree.

It's better to miss something that happened than to "see" something that didn't.
I agree that you shouldn't call a foul unless you're 100% sure it's a foul, but that doesn't mean that it's better to miss a foul than call a phantom foul. Both are equally bad, we just choose to err on the side of not calling fouls (as we should due to the other effects of a foul - disqualification, bonus, etc).
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 15, 2011, 01:00pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastshire View Post
I agree that you shouldn't call a foul unless you're 100% sure it's a foul, but that doesn't mean that it's better to miss a foul than call a phantom foul. Both are equally bad, we just choose to err on the side of not calling fouls (as we should due to the other effects of a foul - disqualification, bonus, etc).
Actually, it does mean that.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 15, 2011, 01:06pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Actually, it does mean that.
Not in the closing moments of the game, it doesn't.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 15, 2011, 01:10pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastshire View Post
Not in the closing moments of the game, it doesn't.
When you say it's better to err on the side of missing something rather than calling something that isn't there, it absolutely does mean that.

You want to make 100% sure there's a foul before you call it.

You do not have to be 100% sure there isn't a foul before letting it go.

The concept applies all game long.

You obviously don't want to make either mistake, but you've already admitted we choose to err on one side vs the other.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 15, 2011, 01:56pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,950
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
This thread kinda warped over time, did it not? The OP, I think, recognized the relative importance of the final seconds in the scheme of things. He also feels, apparently, that a bad no-call is better than a bad call. I would agree. But what I get out of the OP is that he is asking if he should change his standard of making a call in the final seconds to help avoid making a bad call in this circumstance. I think most of us agree the answer to this is no.
Actually my concern with the OP is that he was doubting himself b/c of the fans. He seemed to have officiated the final plays properly but b/c the fans reacted a certain way he questioned what he did.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 15, 2011, 04:11pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
Actually my concern with the OP is that he was doubting himself b/c of the fans. He seemed to have officiated the final plays properly but b/c the fans reacted a certain way he questioned what he did.
Agreed. Doubting oneself in any tough decision is natural. But doubting yourself on a call because of the reaction of fans, is not something that should happen at all.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 15, 2011, 04:20pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Good example of the false magnification of the importance of a call at the end:

Years ago, one of the first varsity games I ever called. Visitors trailed the entire game, the outcome was apparently decided. Mostly subs were in the game. Visitors threw in some 3's, got a couple of turnovers, and all of a sudden it's a one point game in the last few seconds. Pressure in the backcourt and the ball is knocked out, home to inbound right in front of visitors bench with 1 second on the clock. V1, 6'5" center, pressures the throw-in, extending over the line up to his armpits. I give the warning. He backs up, then, on the count of 3, steps up and does the same thing again. T Visitors bench threw a fit. Home missed both free throws, threw it in, and the game was over. V principal called my assignor to complain about the call, saying, among other things, that it had cost them a chance to win the game. On the contrary, had I not made this (proper) call, and the pressure resulted in a turnover, it would have given them a chance to win which they should not have had.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What happened to the T to start the game--NCAA Game thread? w_sohl Basketball 1 Tue Mar 10, 2009 01:32pm
Jordan's 63 pt game - Game 2 of 1st round 1986 Eastern Conference Playoffs Cajun Reff Basketball 15 Fri Mar 07, 2008 09:56am
Twenty technicals in one game - all for delay of game! Mark Padgett Basketball 14 Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:55pm
Next game teams warming up on field during game reccer Softball 6 Mon Jul 16, 2007 03:00pm
Cursed Game: 3 Injuries, 2 ambulance calls, 1 game wadeintothem Softball 3 Mon Oct 16, 2006 04:48pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:20am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1