End of game

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Of course not! How did you connect those dots?

Let's find the dots:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

While this is all true, the earlier something happens (such as an official's mistake that leads to an open three point shot in the third quarter) the more chance the other team has to make up for the mistake.

Originally Posted by bainsey

Very well, then. Let's say that you completely kick a block/charge call in the first quarter. A1 drives to the basket, goes airborne, B2 hits LGP too late, the basket is good, and a crash ensues. You stupidly call a charge and wave off the basket. How is Team A ever going to make up for those two points you just negated? The only thing Team A can do it is keep playing and do the best it can. I don't see how it can "make up" for your mistake.
You can certainly affect a close game's outcome at its end, but in reality, no more than you can affect it via a first-quarter kick....

I'm sorry, but what you wrote above (particularly what I highlighted without otherwise altering) leads to the following question:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Are you going to suggest a team plays the same in the last minute with a 2 point lead as they do when down by 2 points?

Your suggestion that a kicked block/charge call in the first quarter is just as vital to the end of the game as the same kicked call with 2 seconds left is silly. If it's not what you meant, it's certainly what you wrote.

Originally Posted by bainsey

No question. I submit, though, that it has a lot to do with what most people can take in. If you were to take a step back and analyze the totality of a close game, wouldn't you likely find a number of things that could have affected its outcome?

I know this was posed to bob, but my answer is, "of course, you'll find plays that affected the outcome. But their significance on the game is diminished in comparison to events that happened in closer proximity to the end."

If A1 misses two FTs that would have tied the game with a minute left, it's a big deal but not insurmountable. If he misses those same game-tying FTs with 1 second left, overcoming becomes even more difficult. If he misses those same game-tying FTs with no time left, the error has now become insurmountable.

[Adam]

The same applies to missed calls or kicked rules. If I wipe off a game-tying score with 60 seconds left; they can possibly recover. If I wipe it with no time left, they cannot. Whether the score got wiped due to a player's error (travel, PC foul, etc) or my error (bad call, poor rules knowledge) makes no difference WRT the ability of the team's ability to recover.

[bainsey]

Okay, fair enough.

Now, allow me to connect your dots.

"Overcome" seems to be the key verb here. Are you saying that it's okay to kick a call, provided that a team can overcome it?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Okay, fair enough.

Now, allow me to connect your dots.

"Overcome" seems to be the key verb here. Are you saying that it's okay to kick a call, provided that a team can overcome it?

Yes, That's exactly what we're saying.

/sarcasm.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Yes, That's exactly what we're saying.

/sarcasm.

That was Snaq's question, Bob. I didn't see an answer to your question a few posts back.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Okay, fair enough.

Now, allow me to connect your dots.

"Overcome" seems to be the key verb here. Are you saying that it's okay to kick a call, provided that a team can overcome it?

Good grief. I'll let Bob's response speak for me as well.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Good grief. I'll let Bob's response speak for me as well.

I'll take that as a "no," which proves my point. You can affect the outcome of a game with a kicked call at any time. The only difference, as Bob pointed out, is the scrutiny is greater at the end. That's because people can only remember so much.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I'll take that as a "no," which proves my point. You can affect the outcome of a game with a kicked call at any time. The only difference, as Bob pointed out, is the scrutiny is greater at the end. That's because people can only remember so much.

Please.

If you have a choice (and you really don't), then you'd rather kick a call at the beginning of the game than at the end.

All missed calls affect the game. Those at the end affect the game more.

No one said (I don't think) that missed calls at the beginning don't affect the game.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Very well, then. Let's say that you completely kick a block/charge call in the first quarter. A1 drives to the basket, goes airborne, B2 hits LGP too late, the basket is good, and a crash ensues. You stupidly call a charge and wave off the basket. How is Team A ever going to make up for those two points you just negated?

The only thing Team A can do it is keep playing and do the best it can. I don't see how it can "make up" for your mistake.


You can certainly affect a close game's outcome at its end, but in reality, no more than you can affect it via a first-quarter kick. While plays and score situations certainly cascade as the game goes on, you can still affect a close game's outcome at any time. The question is whether anyone will remember it, and people are typically too caught up in the game's emotion to remember something early.

Mind you, that doesn't give anyone permission not to bring their A-game early. Quite the contrary, bring it and maintain it throughout. You will have an effect in a close game, just make sure it's not a negative one.

I can tell you that college supervisors and successful officials will tell you there is a big difference between kicking a call in the 1st quarter and kicking a call in the last 2 minutes. As has been pointed out, teams have time to overcome a bad call made early in the game.

I guarantee you that if you and I were in camp and you kicked a call big-time in the 1st quarter and I kicked a called in the last minute with the score tied and all other things being equal, you are going to come out with a higher rating than me. Difference being is that your 1st quarter kicked call will just be thought of a brain-fart while my last minute kicked call will be thought of as me wilting under pressure. My kicked call will also be looked at as hampering a team's chance to win that game.

You may not agree with that philosophy but that is the reality of the situation.

Tell me this, who's interception was more detrimental to his team's chances of winning, Manning's pick-6 against the Saints or Big Ben's pick-6 against the Packers? Both put their teams down by 14 points.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I'll take that as a "no," which proves my point. You can affect the outcome of a game with a kicked call at any time. The only difference, as Bob pointed out, is the scrutiny is greater at the end. That's because people can only remember so much.

No, that's not the only difference. And Bob didn't say it was. Your point isn't proven at all. I don't think it's okay to make a mistake at any point. But mistakes happen.

I do think a mistake made with 1 second has more potential to change the actual outcome (who wins or loses) than a mistake made 1 minute into the 1st quarter.

Where I struggle is in understanding how this is even debatable.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Okay, fair enough.

Now, allow me to connect your dots.

"Overcome" seems to be the key verb here. Are you saying that it's okay to kick a call, provided that a team can overcome it?

And you're going to have to do one of three things here, it seems.
1. Acknowledge that a late mistake is more damaging than an early mistake.
2. Acknowledge that you think players and coaches don't make adjustments late in the game based on the score.
3. Simply live with the cognitive dissonance.