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Old Sun Jan 30, 2011, 03:00pm
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Yikes

What do you do when a partner kicks a call? Not misses a call or sees it differently, if by rule he gets it wrong.

Situation (FIBA rules): Shot clock is running down from 24, ball must hit the rim or go in before the horn sounds on the shot clock to avoid violation. Shot clock only remains on until clock runs. It immediately goes to 23 for presumably 23.9999999 to 23.0, then 22 etc. You can only see the 24 -23- 22 though.

In case you can't see where this is going it a late clock situation with 1 second left on the shot clock player A1 catches to shoot. Clock hits 0 (where it will remain until 0.999 - 0 runs out and horn sounds) and kid shoots it where it hits the rim and horn sounds. I yell play on from the trail. Lead blows his whistle and signals 24 second violation. Coach A jumps up, clearly upset and loudly but not confrontationally claims its not a violations. L explains the shot clock was at zero and there was a delay in the horn. Coach B (home coach) jumps in and explains that there is always the delay, pointing out how clock works. Coaches for A and B are now in agreement its a violation I walk over to the L and ask what he wants to do. He barks at both coaches to sit down, and tells me the horn is supposed to go when the clock hits 0. Its a 24, B ball.

We play on coach A asks me if he understood what happened I said "I don't think sees it the way you do."

After the game we talk about the situation. Rules say nothing about whether the clock should only read 0 at 0 or 0 from 0.9-0. L still claims it is a clock issue and the call should be made and horn go off as soon as the clock reaches 0.

Both coaches handled it pretty well at the time. But as a partner in this or any situation where I know my partner gets the call wrong by the book, but won't even discuss changing it: what do you do?
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Old Sun Jan 30, 2011, 06:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantherdreams View Post
What do you do when a partner kicks a call? Not misses a call or sees it differently, if by rule he gets it wrong.

Situation (FIBA rules): Shot clock is running down from 24, ball must hit the rim or go in before the horn sounds on the shot clock to avoid violation.
This is not the FIBA shot clock rule (it used to be like this many, many years ago). It's a violation if the ball doesn't hit the rim or enter the basket when the horn sounds during a try.

In other words, when there's a try and the horn sounds, one has to wait and see what happens. It's definitely not a violation when the horn sounds; the violation, if any, always occurs after the horn sounds. Of course this doesn't apply if a team is still in control when the horn sounds: in this case the violation is immediate.

Of course that shot clock is not regular, since it should always show 0 exactly when the horn sounds. You find the rule in the "Basketball Equipment" booklet, page 14. In any case, it's advisable to check all the equipment before the game.

Ciao

Last edited by eg-italy; Sun Jan 30, 2011 at 06:06pm.
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Old Sun Jan 30, 2011, 06:04pm
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The horn sounds on every shot clock I've ever dealt with or seen in NCAA and NBA games when clock displays zero, not .999 seconds later.

Also, the shot must be released before the horn, not hit the rim before the horn. THen, the shot must hit the rim. Unless FEEBLE has some weird shot clock rules.
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Old Sun Jan 30, 2011, 06:39pm
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Speaking of shot clock...etc.

We were having a few brown pops last night, after the games, and one of my buddies said that he had a shot clock "issue".

A1 with an attempt...while the try was in flight, the shot clock horn went off...then the ball lodged between the rim and the backboard.

He simply went with Possession Arrow, which was Team A's, and away they went. (No shot clock violation, because the ball hit the rim when it lodged)

Everyone at our table agreed with that call.

Then he had a scenario that was a split decision...

A1 goes up for a try...B1 fouls A1 while A1 is airborne...the attempt goes in.
The official calls a foul on B1 and counts the basket. After the basket goes...A1 and B1 shove each other...the official calls a double T on A1 and B1.

Watta ya got?
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Old Sun Jan 30, 2011, 06:40pm
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He's saying the kid released the shot after the clock hit zero but before the horn. This happens all the time at the end of games (on clocks without tenths), why wouldn't it be the case for the occasional shot clock?
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Old Sun Jan 30, 2011, 06:41pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RookieDude View Post
We were having a few brown pops last night, after the games, and one of my buddies said that he had a shot clock "issue".

A1 with an attempt...while the try was in flight, the shot clock horn went off...then the ball lodged between the rim and the backboard.

He simply went with Possession Arrow, which was Team A's, and away they went. (No shot clock violation, because the ball hit the rim when it lodged)

Everyone at our table agreed with that call.

Then he had a scenario that was a split decision...

A1 goes up for a try...B1 fouls A1 while A1 is airborne...the attempt goes in.
The official calls a foul on B1 and counts the basket. After the basket goes...A1 and B1 shove each other...the official calls a double T on A1 and B1.

Watta ya got?
Double T, POI which will be A1's free throw with the players lined up. How was this a split decision?
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Old Sun Jan 30, 2011, 06:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RookieDude View Post
We were having a few brown pops last night, after the games, and one of my buddies said that he had a shot clock "issue".

A1 with an attempt...while the try was in flight, the shot clock horn went off...then the ball lodged between the rim and the backboard.

He simply went with Possession Arrow, which was Team A's, and away they went. (No shot clock violation, because the ball hit the rim when it lodged)

Everyone at our table agreed with that call.

Then he had a scenario that was a split decision...

A1 goes up for a try...B1 fouls A1 while A1 is airborne...the attempt goes in.
The official calls a foul on B1 and counts the basket. After the basket goes...A1 and B1 shove each other...the official calls a double T on A1 and B1.

Watta ya got?
This is an easy one RD. All double fouls go to the point of interruption. In this case, the POI will be the one free throw for A1 with players lining up in the lane.

How was this a split decision? What was the opposing argument?
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Old Sun Jan 30, 2011, 06:56pm
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Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
What was the opposing argument?
The opposing argument, without much thought I might add, was that the lane would be cleared and shoot the FT...then AP for the T.

POI was then discussed.
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Old Sun Jan 30, 2011, 07:03pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Double Class A T, POI which will be A1's free throw with the players lined up. How was this a split decision?
Just added something that you already knew but others might not....
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Old Sun Jan 30, 2011, 07:07pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Double T, POI which will be A1's free throw with the players lined up. How was this a split decision?
And what does it have to do with this thread and the original post?
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Old Sun Jan 30, 2011, 07:15pm
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Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
Just added something that you already knew but others might not....
College rules?
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Old Sun Jan 30, 2011, 07:35pm
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Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
The horn sounds on every shot clock I've ever dealt with or seen in NCAA and NBA games when clock displays zero, not .999 seconds later.

Also, the shot must be released before the horn, not hit the rim before the horn. THen, the shot must hit the rim. Unless FEEBLE has some weird shot clock rules.
FIBA rules are (almost) exactly the same. And the horn should sound when the clock displays 0.

The "almost" is because, if the ball lodges between the backboard and the basket after the horn has sounded, it is a shot clock violation. That's the only difference.

Ciao
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Old Sun Jan 30, 2011, 07:42pm
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Originally Posted by eg-italy View Post
FIBA rules are (almost) exactly the same. And the horn should sound when the clock displays 0.

The "almost" is because, if the ball lodges between the backboard and the basket after the horn has sounded, it is a shot clock violation. That's the only difference.

Ciao
So your shot clocks are always the same? Meaning when they say "1," it's actually between 0.0000001 and 1? There aren't any models for which "1" means between 1 and 1.99999999?
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Old Sun Jan 30, 2011, 08:50pm
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Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
The horn sounds on every shot clock I've ever dealt with or seen in NCAA and NBA games when clock displays zero, not .999 seconds later.
That's my experience, too, but it's apparently not universal. There was some kerfluffle on some NCAAW issue a few years ago, and the ruling was what the ruling was because some clocks are different (I forget the issue and the ruling, now).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantherdreams View Post
What do you do when a partner kicks a call? Not misses a call or sees it differently, if by rule he gets it wrong.
One of you needs to step it up. It is, of course, almost as likely that the next thread here will be "what do yo do if you partner insists on overturning a rules issue that you know you have correct." So, whoever is "more certain" (and maybe the R) decides, you all look it up after the game, and someone learns something.
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Old Sun Jan 30, 2011, 08:53pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
College rules?
I know that RookieDude doesn't do FIBA and his state doesn't use a shot clock in high school games so I thought it had to be college rules.
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