Yikes - you make the call!

[Mark Padgett]

NF rules - A1 launches a shot from beyond the 3 point line and is flagrantly fouled by B1 before returning to the floor. While the ball is in flight, the lead official blows his whistle and calls a double foul on A2 and B2. Also while the ball is in flight, coach A, reacting to the flagrant foul, runs onto the court after B1 and the trail official blows his whistle and signals a technical foul on coach A. As the ball decends toward the basket, the horn goes off to signal the end of the quarter. Then, while the ball is on its downward flight, but before it enters the cylinder, B3 jumps up and knocks it away and the lead official blows his whistle again for goaltending.

Have fun.

[Mark Dexter]

The call: MP needs to go back on his meds!


This can be broken down piecemeal - just remember - all penalties for fouls are administered in the order in which they occur.

(1) B1 flagrantly fouls (assuming personal foul) A1 - ball remains live - if shot is good, we'll have 2 FT's by A1; if shot is no good, we'll have 3 FT's by A1. (Ball will return to spot closest of foul for throw-in by A.)

(2) A2/B2 double foul - once again, ball remains live, because a try/tap is in flight. (Now going to the AP arrow.)

(3) Technical on A Coach - two free throws for team B (now, team B will get ball at division line.)

(4) Horn - whether the horn should or should not have sounded (don't know time at original foul, but seems like more than 1 second would elapse during all this), the ball is not dead, as it is on a try/tap for goal (released before the horn). (Of course, the clock might need to be reset based on lag time principles - after this scenario, however, I would recommend leaving it at zero!)

(5) GT - the ball is still on a try/tap (the expiration of time does not change this), so the goaltending scores three points for A (A1 in particular).

Here's the rundown:
Count the 3 for A1.
Report B1 flagrant foul - notify coach and DQ.
Report A2/B2 double foul - notify coach(es) if fifth.
Report A Coach technical - remove coach if proper combination reached.
(The following depends on time/score situation
A1 shoots 2 FT's, lane cleared.
Any member of team B shoots 2 FT's, lane cleared.
B has the ball for a throw-in at the division line.
Arrow does not switch.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
The call: MP needs to go back on his meds!

And you have too much time on your hands if you're going to try to figure this one out.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by BktBallRef


And you have too much time on your hands if you're going to try to figure this one out.

I'm not disputing that one!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
The call: MP needs to go back on his meds!


This can be broken down piecemeal - just remember - all penalties for fouls are administered in the order in which they occur.

(1) B1 flagrantly fouls (assuming personal foul) A1 - ball remains live - if shot is good, we'll have 2 FT's by A1; if shot is no good, we'll have 3 FT's by A1. (Ball will return to spot closest of foul for throw-in by A.)

(2) A2/B2 double foul - once again, ball remains live, because a try/tap is in flight. (Now going to the AP arrow.)

(3) Technical on A Coach - two free throws for team B (now, team B will get ball at division line.)

(4) Horn - whether the horn should or should not have sounded (don't know time at original foul, but seems like more than 1 second would elapse during all this), the ball is not dead, as it is on a try/tap for goal (released before the horn). (Of course, the clock might need to be reset based on lag time principles - after this scenario, however, I would recommend leaving it at zero!)

(5) GT - the ball is still on a try/tap (the expiration of time does not change this), so the goaltending scores three points for A (A1 in particular).

Here's the rundown:
Count the 3 for A1.
Report B1 flagrant foul - notify coach and DQ.
Report A2/B2 double foul - notify coach(es) if fifth.
Report A Coach technical - remove coach if proper combination reached.
(The following depends on time/score situation
A1 shoots 2 FT's, lane cleared.
Any member of team B shoots 2 FT's, lane cleared.
B has the ball for a throw-in at the division line.
Arrow does not switch.

Gotta disagree with the last two,Mark.B doesn't get the ball for a throw-in.The AP does not come into play because all the related activity is part of the same quarter.Rule 5-6-3b covers it.You go with the AP to start the next quarter if this happens at the end of the 1st,2nd or 3rd quarters.You go with a jump ball if an OT is needed.
Yup,Tony-too much time on my hands!Btw,my first answer was gonna be-"If you have good presence,none of this would have happened in the first place!"-but I thought Nah,too easy.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jul 22nd, 2002 at 01:01 AM]

[JLK]

Ah, Mark,

Nice scenario you set up for us here but what is the one thing that should never happen here?

The lead should never have a goaltending call.

Goaltending is the trail's responsibility. There may a situation on a breakaway, where the trail became the new lead and has to make the call.

I think you should have added one more thing to your scenario...having to clear the gym due to rowdy fans after all this occurs!!

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Gotta disagree with the last two,Mark.B doesn't get the ball for a throw-in.The AP does not come into play because all the related activity is part of the same quarter.Rule 5-6-3b covers it.You go with the AP to start the next quarter if this happens at the end of the 1st,2nd or 3rd quarters.You go with a jump ball if an OT is needed.
Yup,Tony-too much time on my hands!Btw,my first answer was gonna be-"If you have good presence,none of this would have happened in the first place!"-but I thought Nah,too easy.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jul 22nd, 2002 at 01:01 AM]

My thinking is that time will have to be put back on the clock - seems like more than one second will elapse for all this to happen.

Also, if at the end of the 4th quarter, we might not have FT's at all.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

My thinking is that time will have to be put back on the clock - seems like more than one second will elapse for all this to happen.

Also, if at the end of the 4th quarter, we might not have FT's at all.

I went with your scenario in your response when I answered i.e. no time put back on the clock.Mark P's sitch doesn't mention time remaining,but it has to be around a second or so because the clock is supposed to be stopped on the first foul-B1's flagrant foul.Naturally,if you put time back on,you would end up the way you had written.
I know that there also might not be FT's in this sitch.That's why I said "if an OT is needed".That pretty well covers all permutations and combinations,I think.
I also think that we probably both mean the same thing in our answers,but there is one time/score situation that your answer was wrong about i.e.no time on clock and the score close enough that you have to shoot FT's.You could end up with an OT and a jump ball in that case.

[theboys]

No matter what you do, just sound confident when you explain it to the scorer. Neither coach will have a clue what to do. I'd be too busy trying to figure out whether I had enough players to finish the game.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by theboys
No matter what you do, just sound confident when you explain it to the scorer. Neither coach will have a clue what to do. I'd be too busy trying to figure out whether I had enough players to finish the game.

The approved mechanic in this type of situation is for the two senior officials to tell the rookie on the crew to explain the call to everyone.We also tell the rook that if he needs us for anything,we'll be right over there by the door.