Yikes.. now what?

[oatmealqueen]

I was spectating at a FED girls softball game and witnessed this sitch.
Runners on 2nd and 3rd, no outs and the batter hits high infield pop-up. PU, in error, calls IF.
Batter, thinking she's out, takes about four or five steps towards dugout.
F3 drops the fly ball, and runner from 3rd comes in to score. No one else moves.
Umpires huddle.. yikes.. now what?

[Skahtboi]

Now this can get ugly. So...what happened??

[mick]

Originally posted by oatmealqueen
I was spectating at a FED girls softball game and witnessed this sitch.
Runners on 2nd and 3rd, no outs and the batter hits high infield pop-up. PU, in error, calls IF.
Batter, thinking she's out, takes about four or five steps towards dugout.
F3 drops the fly ball, and runner from 3rd comes in to score. No one else moves.
Umpires huddle.. yikes.. now what?

Live ball; disregard Ump's declaration.
Look for new umpires from the U.P.
mick

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by oatmealqueen
I was spectating at a FED girls softball game and witnessed this sitch.
Runners on 2nd and 3rd, no outs and the batter hits high infield pop-up. PU, in error, calls IF.
Batter, thinking she's out, takes about four or five steps towards dugout.
F3 drops the fly ball, and runner from 3rd comes in to score. No one else moves.
Umpires huddle.. yikes.. now what?

No problem. Put the batter on 1B and play ball.

[TexBlue]

I agree with Mike. The PU put the BR in jeopardy and that is correctable. Put her on 1st, the rest of the play stands as is. Then brace yourself for the conversation to come. If you're the BU, the biggest decision to make is, how long do you wait to calm things down between the PU and the coach? while you

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

No problem. Put the batter on 1B and play ball.

Now that you have placed the batter on 1B with zero outs, do you return the other runners back to the bases they occupied at the time of the pitch or do you leave them where they were at the conclusion of the clusterfu**?

Michael

[Ed Maeder]

Play stands because the only runner the umpire put in jeopardy was the batter runner by calling her out. All other runners put themselves in jeopardy and if thrown out instead of advancing the outs would stand.

[Edited by Ed Maeder on May 31st, 2004 at 11:39 PM]

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Ed Maeder
Play stands because the only runner the umpire put in jeopardy was the batter runner by calling her out. All other runners put themselves in jeopardy and if thrown out instead of advancing the outs would stand.

[Edited by Ed Maeder on May 31st, 2004 at 11:39 PM]

Yeppers

[oatmealqueen]

Originally posted by Skahtboi
Now this can get ugly. So...what happened??

Umpires stayed with the IF call, batter out, THEN returned runner back to third that scored. Double yikes!!
Very unhappy coaches.
Umpires continued the dazed and confused look for the next few innings.

[LMan]

.....so they made the error even worse than it otherwise would have been. No wonder they were dazed!

[rwest]

Mike,

This is from memory so forgive me if I'm stating this incorrectly, but I thought from other threads on this forum that you've indicated in various situations that the players should know the rules and should act accordingly. I believe it was in regard to the IF rule. If so, could a case be made for calling the batter-runner out for entering the dugout and scoring the run? I realize the PU made a mistake and placed the batter-runner in jeopardy, but the batter should have known better.

As a general question, what principle is applied in determining a "correctable error"? Are correctable errors situations in which the umpire has mis-applied a rule? If so, then what is the process one goes through to correct it? I'm assuming it involves the umpires judgement in certain scenarios.

Thanks!
Randall




[Edited by rwest on Jun 2nd, 2004 at 05:15 PM]

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by rwest
Mike,

This is from memory so forgive me if I'm stating this incorrectly, but I thought from other threads on this forum that you've indicated in various situations that the players should know the rules and should act accordingly. I believe it was in regard to the IF rule. If so, could a case be made for calling the batter-runner out for entering the dugout and scoring the run? I realize the PU made a mistake and placed the batter-runner in jeopardy, but the batter should have known better.

As a general question, what principle is applied in determining a "correctable error"? Are correctable errors situations in which the umpire has mis-applied a rule? If so, then what is the process one goes through to correct it? I'm assuming it involves the umpires judgement in certain scenarios.

Thanks!
Randall
[Edited by rwest on Jun 2nd, 2004 at 05:15 PM]

Actually, I think it is more often, if not always that we mention the players should be aware of the situation and the number that go with it (outs, balls, strikes, etc.).

We know they have limited knowledge of the rules.

The BR never entered DBT, so there is no problem there, she can run anytime she pleases. If she had entered DBT, then the argument can be made that she was following the umpire's directions (the dugout is where players go when they are called out). Of course, we haven't been told what the 1B coach was doing. If he was screaming for the BR to advance to 1B, then I might have to take the fact that the runner ignored her own coach and placed herself in jeopardy by doing so. It is a real tough situation sometimes and I believe an umpire should think in conservative terms when doing something like this.

Cannot speak for Fed, but to me a correctable error is always one upon which the umpire misapplied the rules which placed a runner or defense in jeopardy. It is the umpire's decision when that should occur, but s/he should be sure that in doing so, there isn't another misapplication or protestable situation coming up. I believe this is more likely to happen when it is attempted to rectify a bad judgement call than a misapplication of the rules.

[ChampaignBlue]

Tough correctable error. Did the fielder give up on the ball? If so you could call the batter out because the defense was put in jeopardy. No matter what I'd have the run score because that was not affected by the inadvertant call. BR on 1st if ball was just badly played. BR in dugout if defense didn't attempt the catch trying to get the runners to try and run.

[mick]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by oatmealqueen

Umpires continued the dazed and confused look for the next few innings.

oatmealqueen,
Did you assign them?
mick

[oatmealqueen]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mick

Originally posted by oatmealqueen

oatmealqueen,
Did you assign them?
mick

Mick,
I did not .
They were fairly new.
What I failed to mention was that the runners started at 1st & 2nd, had moved up on a wild pitch, and I didn't see the officials wipe off the IF.
That momentary loss of concentration caused the sitch.