Legal dribble or not?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Interesting.

Explanation as to why it's legal? Scrappy said that the ball was released to start a dribble and the ball was then touched twice by the dribbler before the ball hit the floor. That double-touch was during the same dribble, wasn't it? The definition of a "dribble" says that you push the ball to the floor, not to a foot. What am I missing?

If we follow that this is the same as the case play, then it would have to be an illegal dribble any time a player begins a dribble and the ball hits off his foot-even if the ball goes to a defender.

Agree?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

If we follow that this is the same as the case play, then it would have to be an illegal dribble any time a player begins a dribble and the ball hits off his foot-even if the ball goes to a defender.

Agree?

Why?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Why?

Well, I'm asking. If the violation is for touching a dribble twice before it hits the floor (which is what it appears to me JR is saying), then any time a player begins a dribble and dribbles it off a foot (or knee, gut, head, whatever), that would be touching a dribble twice.

If I'm misreading what Jurassic is arguing, then I need straightened out. Perhaps he's saying that the player catching the ball off his foot is the second touching?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

If we follow that this is the same as the case play, then it would have to be an illegal dribble any time a player begins a dribble and the ball hits off his foot-even if the ball goes to a defender.

Agree?

Um, no. Afaik, by rule touching any other body part except the hand(s) during any single dribble is completely irrelevant. It's a violation to touch the ball twice with either hand during any single dribble. But simultaneously touching the ball with both hands isn't a violation. Doing so merely ends the dribble.

The usual understanding of a single dribble, again afaik, is hand--->floor---->hand. And if you touch the ball twice with a hand at any time between the total hand---->floor sequence, it's a violation.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Um, no. Afaik, by rule touching any other body part except the hand(s) during any single dribble is completely irrelevant. It's a violation to touch the ball twice with either hand during any single dribble. But simultaneously touching the ball with both hands isn't a violation. Doing so merely ends the dribble.

The usual understanding of a single dribble, again afaik, is hand--->floor---->hand. And if you touch the ball twice with a hand between the hand---->hand sequence, it's a violation.

Ah, I'm following you now. The violation occurs when the ball is touched again by the hand, not when the ball touches the foot. Thanks for the clarification.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

The violation occurs when the ball is touched again by the hand, not when the ball touches the foot.

That's my understanding of the rule. You'd only have a violation if you called the dribbler for deliberately playing the ball with the foot(aka a deliberate kicked ball). But's that's a different scenario than the OP and a different violation entirely.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

That's my understanding of the rule. You'd only have a violation if you called the dribbler for deliberately playing the ball with the foot(aka a deliberate kicked ball). But's that's a different scenario than the OP and a different violation entirely.

Yep, I was just having a brain cramp around what you were saying, not the rule. I was thinking you were arguing the second touching was when it hit the foot, which made no sense (obviously) to me. We agree.

In practice, it would have to be abundantly obvious the ball didn't hit the floor as well as the foot for me to call a violation.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

That's my understanding of the rule. You'd only have a violation if you called the dribbler for deliberately playing the ball with the foot(aka a deliberate kicked ball). But's that's a different scenario than the OP and a different violation entirely.

Before reading the case play, my understanding of the rule was that not only did the player have to hit the ball twice with his hands between bounces, but it had to happen after he batted the ball "in the air."

The reasoning in the case play, however, leads one to your conclusion.

In practice, though, I'm not sure there's any way I'd be able to see the ball didn't hit the floor.