Legal dribble or not?

[Scrapper1]

A1 receives a pass and releases the ball to start a dribble. The ball hits the top of his foot, never touching the floor, and bounces straight up. A1 then bats the ball to the floor.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

A1 receives a pass and releases the ball to start a dribble. The ball hits the top of his foot, never touching the floor, and bounces straight up. A1 then bats the ball to the floor.

Legal.

However? A1 receives a pass and releases the ball to start a dribble. The ball hits the top of his foot, never touching the floor, and bounces straight up. A1 then catches the ball with both hands, and starts a new dribble? What do you got? (Apologies to Bon Jovi)

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

(Apologies to Bon Jovi)

I thought he owned part of an arena football team?

[Adam]

Hmmm. (NFHS) 4-15-2 states a ball may be batted in the air as long as it is allowed to hit the floor before being hit a 2nd time. Does this player bat the ball "in the air?" I don't think so, but is that the only time a player isn't allowed to bat it twice before it hits the floor? It's the only one I could find.

Tentative answer: legal

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Legal.

However? A1 receives a pass and releases the ball to start a dribble. The ball hits the top of his foot, never touching the floor, and bounces straight up. A1 then catches the ball with both hands, and starts a new dribble?

I think these are essentially the same question. Is it a legal dribble when the ball bounces off the body and not the floor?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I think these are essentially the same question. Is it a legal dribble when the ball bounces off the body and not the floor?

They are. That's my point.

Is it a legal dribble when the ball bounces off the body and not the floor?

At least we know that it's not a fumble, the accidental loss of player control when the ball unintentionally drops or slips from a player’s grasp.

Your move.

[SNIPERBBB]

I would say illegal using 4.15.4.D plays a or c. I am thinking a coves it better though. Referring to billy's play

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

I would say illegal using 4.15.4.D plays a or c. I am thinking a covers it better though.

4.15.4 SITUATION D: While dribbling: (a) A1 bats the ball over the head of an
opponent, runs around the opponent, bats the ball to the floor and continues to
dribble; (b) the ball bounces away but A1 is able to get to it and continues to dribble;
(c) the ball hits A1’s foot and bounces away but A1 is able to overtake and
pick it up; or (d) A1 fumbles the ball in ending the dribble so that A1 must run to
recover it. RULING: Violation in (a), because the ball was touched twice by A1’s
hand(s) during a dribble, before it touched the floor. In (b), even though the dribble
was interrupted it has not ended and A1 may continue the dribble. In (c), the
dribble ended when A1 caught the ball; and it ended in (d) when it was fumbled.
Even though the dribble has ended in (c) and (d), A1 may recover the ball but may
not dribble again. (9-5)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

A1 receives a pass and releases the ball to start a dribble. The ball hits the top of his foot, never touching the floor, and bounces straight up. A1 then bats the ball to the floor.

Actually, if this is a violation, it's a violation regardless of whether he bats it again after it hits his foot. The violation would be for hitting the foot (the 2nd touch of a dribble before it hits the floor).

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

I would say illegal using 4.15.4.D plays a or c. I am thinking a coves it better though. Referring to billy's play

Neither case applies, IMO. a refers to a player who has batted the ball into the air; I don't think the plays in this thread were batted "in the air." c isn't even a violation in the case play.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

At least we know that it's not a fumble, the accidental loss of player control when the ball unintentionally drops or slips from a player’s grasp.

I retract my last move. Maybe it is a fumble. Did the player intentionally plan to "dribble" the ball off his foot. I can't read minds anymore, but I doubt it very much. So maybe it was accidentally and unintentionally fumbled? You can fumble and dribble, right?

Your move.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Actually, if this is a violation, it's a violation regardless of whether he bats it again after it hits his foot. The violation would be for hitting the foot (the 2nd touch of a dribble before it hits the floor).

Going back to 4.15.4.D c shows that hitting the foot is legal.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Actually, if this is a violation, it's a violation regardless of whether he bats it again after it hits his foot. The violation would be for hitting the foot (the 2nd touch of a dribble before it hits the floor).

Is hitting the foot the same as hitting the floor? In this case, I think it is. If not, the ball hasn't hit the floor, so the dribble hasn't started yet. Either way, no violation.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

Going back to 4.15.4.D c shows that hitting the foot is legal.

good point, I just re-read 4-15-2, and it qualifies the 2nd touch (illegal) as being with the hands. It wouldn't be a violation until the player bats it a 2nd time with his hands.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Is hitting the foot the same as hitting the floor? In this case, I think it is. If not, the ball hasn't hit the floor, so the dribble hasn't started yet. Either way, no violation.

I agree it's not a violation, but I think it's because the ball is never batted "in the air."

Change the play, A1, during his dribble, bats the ball in the air over B1's head. He attempts to let it hit the floor legally before continuing the dribble, but his foot gets in the way. It hits his foot and bounces up, then he bats the ball to the floor and continues on his way.

I've got a violatin here, he batted it in the air and hit it again with his hand prior to the ball hitting the floor.