Legal dribble or not?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Hmmm. Apparently, there's a second crux to this question. The rule clarifies that it's illegal "during a dribble." We all know the dribble starts when it's pushed to the floor, but if it never hits the floor, was it really the start of the dribble?

Hmmmm. Do you really think Scrappy lied to you in the OP when he said that A1 released the ball to start a dribble? That's a given!

Why can't people just take Scrappy's question at face value instead of bringing in things that have got nothin to do with what he's asking? Scrappy said the dribble started. That's good enough for me. What constitutes the start of a dribble is a completely different conversation that has nothing to do with this thread.

Forget about the start of the dribble. Say A1 has dribbled 7 times. On his eighth dribble, he pushes the ball down, the ball hits his foot without touching the floor and goes straight back up, and then A1 pushes the ball to the floor again. Is that a violation, by rule, for touching the ball twice during the same dribble?

Unless I'm confused, that's what Scrappy's been asking from the git-go.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Hmmmm. Do you really think Scrappy lied to you in the OP when he said that A1 released the ball to start a dribble? That's a given!

Why can't people just take Scrappy's question at face value instead of bringing in things that have got nothin to do with what he's asking? Scrappy said the dribble started. That's good enough for me. What constitutes the start of a dribble is a completely different conversation that has nothing to do with this thread.

Forget about the start of the dribble. Say A1 has dribbled 7 times. On his eighth dribble, he pushes the ball down, the ball hits his foot without touching the floor and goes straight back up, and then A1 pushes the ball to the floor again. Is that a violation, by rule, for touching the ball twice during the same dribble?

Unless I'm confused, That's what Scrappy's been asking from the git-go.

If scrappy is offended by my question, he'll say so. Here's the OP:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

A1 receives a pass and releases the ball to start a dribble. The ball hits the top of his foot, never touching the floor, and bounces straight up. A1 then bats the ball to the floor.

Note, it never touches the floor. Sure, he released it to start the dribble, but when the ball never touches the floor, was it a dribble? I think it is relevant to the question.

Your altered situation removes one of my two points, to be sure. Now, the only question is whether a player has to bat the ball into the air in order for it to be a violation.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If scrappy is offended by my question, he'll say so. Here's the OP:



Note, it never touches the floor. Sure, he released it to start the dribble, but when the ball never touches the floor, was it a dribble? I think it is relevant to the question.

Your altered situation removes one of my two points, to be sure. Now, the only question is whether a player has to bat the ball into the air in order for it to be a violation.

Good...Lord.

That's all I can say.

I can't put the question any clearer guys.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Say A1 has dribbled 7 times. On his eighth dribble, he pushes the ball down, the ball hits his foot without touching the floor and goes straight back up, and then A1 pushes the ball to the floor again. Is that a violation, by rule, for touching the ball twice during the same dribble?

Would someone answer this question?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

...
Forget about the start of the dribble. Say A1 has dribbled 7 times. On his eighth dribble, he pushes the ball down, the ball hits his foot without touching the floor and goes straight back up, and then A1 pushes the ball to the floor again. Is that a violation, by rule, for touching the ball twice during the same dribble?

Unless I'm confused, that's what Scrappy's been asking from the git-go.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Would someone answer this question?

I thought I did that a few pages ago. In fact, I answered the question before it was asked.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I would agree if A1 had already batted the ball to floor at least once. But in the OP I see it no different than standing in place and tossing the ball to himself before dribbling.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Scrapper1 told us in the OP that A1 released the ball to start a dribble. Are you calling Scrappy a liar? Is there any reason you wouldn't believe Scrappy?

Or are you a resident of JARlandia also?

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Nope, but since the dribble never occurred I'm not ruling it a violation. The dribble was deferred.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

A1 has dribbled 7 times. On his eighth dribble, he pushes the ball down, the ball hits his foot without touching the floor and goes straight back up, and then A1 pushes the ball to the floor again. Is that a violation, by rule, for touching the ball twice during the same dribble?

Everybody completely forget about the damn OP and whether a dribble had started or not. If y'all don't think a dribble was started even though Scrappy1 said it did, who I am to tell you anything different?

In the situation above, is this a violation or no? And if not, why not?

For the record, I say it is because the ball was touched twice during a dribble.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Say A1 has dribbled 7 times. On his eighth dribble, he pushes the ball down, the ball hits his foot without touching the floor and goes straight back up, and then A1 pushes the ball to the floor again. Is that a violation, by rule, for touching the ball twice during the same dribble?

No violation. Dribbling off your own foot generally has its own natural punishment.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by mbyron

No violation. Dribbling off your own foot generally has its own natural punishment.

Is there a limit as to how many times you can dribble off your foot without the ball touching the floor? Can you go from one end to the other doing that? Or maybe continually off your knee like a soccer player as long as the knee isn't moving when the ball hits?

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by mbyron

That's a bit silly, IMO. If the ball bounces on a gum wrapper it's not a dribble, because it didn't touch the floor?

So have I started a dribble if I push the ball down but catch with the other hand before it hits the floor? It's not being silly to note that the floor is different than a foot. Bringing a gum wrapper into the discussion is a bit silly.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Everybody completely forget about the damn OP and whether a dribble had started or not. If y'all don't think a dribble was started even though Scrappy1 said it did, who I am to tell you anything different?

In the situation above, is this a violation or no? And if not, why not?

For the record, I say it is because the ball was touched twice during a dribble.

JR, just because Scrappy said a dribble started doesn't mean a dribble started. It has to start by rule not by Scrappy's (or your) fiat. (And for that matter Scrappy didn't say a dribble started he said A1 released the ball to start a dribble (intention) not A1 started a dribble (fact, which inherently involves the ball actually making it to the floor)).

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Is there a limit as to how many times you can dribble off your foot without the ball touching the floor?

I see none prescribed by the rules.

[Adam]

I think doing it on purpose would be a kicking violation, sort of like a player letting the ball hit his foot and roll up his leg to gain control.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Would someone answer this question?

The question is, does a violation of 4-15-2 require the ball to be batted "in the air," as the rule states? Or, is it a violation to touch the ball twice with the hands "during a dribble," meaning any dribble, per case play 4.15.4D? Those three words in the case play seem to add a bit to the rule.

[Adam]

Just to complicate matters more:
A1 dribbling down the court, bats the ball (legally) over B1's head. Instead of allowing it to bounce, however, he catches it.

Violation?

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I think doing it on purpose would be a kicking violation, sort of like a player letting the ball hit his foot and roll up his leg to gain control.

The question is, does a violation of 4-15-2 require the ball to be batted "in the air," as the rule states? Or, is it a violation to touch the ball twice with the hands "during a dribble," meaning any dribble, per case play 4.15.4D? Those three words in the case play seem to add a bit to the rule.

I think anytime the ball is touched while not on the floor it is being batted in the air. "In the air" is the location of the ball, not the direction given by the bat.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I think anytime the ball is touched while not on the floor it is being batted in the air. "In the air" is the location of the ball, not the direction given by the bat.

I don't think that's what is meant by 4-15-2, otherwise it would be a completely redundant rule. Why would they need to say a player can "bat it in the air," unless they have trajectory in mind?