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Old Fri Jan 21, 2011, 10:07am
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Klutzy on the End Line

Last night, JV Boys. After a made basket A tries to pick up the ball while crossing the end line to throw it in. He got completely out of bounds, but fumbled the ball, half slapped at it, booted it off the back wall (smaller gym) and then it rolled six feet out onto the court. He takes three steps onto the court and picks it up.

I whistled him for a throw in violation.

Coach (who is, BTW, up by 25): He never had possession of the ball out of bounds.

I gave him a "no" head shake and kept on going.

I tried to look it up, but couldn't find a case play or anything. I think that if his team mate had grabbed it, we play on. If it's 5th graders, I probably give it back to him for a do-over, but not JV.

It didn't matter in this case, but I want to make sure it's right next time.
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Old Fri Jan 21, 2011, 10:14am
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I think I would have stopped play to let him recover the ball. The ball was never at his disposal if he was fumbling for it, and he was not deliberately running clock.
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Old Fri Jan 21, 2011, 10:16am
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I'm not sure this is entirely clear in the rules book. My first glance at this would be that it depends on whether he muffed or fumbled - if he muffed it and never had control, I probably don't have a violation. If he had possession out of bounds, he was then under throw-in rules and would have violated by fumbling, the ball entering the court, and m being the first to pick it up. You probably have a violation before that for failing to throw the ball directly onto the court.

IMO, this, in the end, is judgement on whether he truly possessed the ball and was legally out of bounds before everything else happened.
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Old Fri Jan 21, 2011, 10:30am
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Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
I think I would have stopped play to let him recover the ball. The ball was never at his disposal if he was fumbling for it, and he was not deliberately running clock.
+1 I had a "highly coordinated" JV boy that muffed a perfect bounce pass by me during a throwin. He basically put his hands together before the ball got to him and the ball bounced off his fingers and landed out on the floor. I blew my whistle and said, oops my fault, bad pass! I looked over at his coach as I was getting ready to pass the ball to the kid again and he had a huge grin. It was extremely hard not to smile myself.
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Old Fri Jan 21, 2011, 10:32am
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Originally Posted by Loudwhistle View Post
+1 I had a "highly coordinated" JV boy that muffed a perfect bounce pass by me during a throwin. He basically put his hands together before the ball got to him and the ball bounced off his fingers and landed out on the floor. I blew my whistle and said, oops my fault, bad pass! I looked over at his coach as I was getting ready to pass the ball to the kid again and he had a huge grin. It was extremely hard not to smile myself.
You administered that throw-in, in the OP it was after a made basket.
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Old Fri Jan 21, 2011, 10:32am
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You said he was trying to grab it. Did he ever have complete control?
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Old Fri Jan 21, 2011, 10:36am
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He grabbed "at" it and slapped it. Almost a dribble, but not quite. Then it hit the back wall and took a couple bounces up the lane.

Just plain ugly. I should probably re-read my own flipping signature line.
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Old Fri Jan 21, 2011, 10:39am
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Originally Posted by DesMoines View Post
He grabbed "at" it and slapped it. Almost a dribble, but not quite. Then it hit the back wall and took a couple bounces up the lane.

Just plain ugly. I should probably re-read my own flipping signature line.
LOL Yeah, I'd have probably let it go.
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Old Fri Jan 21, 2011, 10:49am
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Originally Posted by tref View Post
You administered that throw-in, in the OP it was after a made basket.
Correct, just trying to show that an official can can blow it dead and start things over. Sounded like another "highly coordinated" player. In both instances, the ball was basically muffed for whatever reason.
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Old Fri Jan 21, 2011, 11:05am
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Originally Posted by Loudwhistle View Post
Correct, just trying to show that an official can can blow it dead and start things over. Sounded like another "highly coordinated" player. In both instances, the ball was basically muffed for whatever reason.
Absolutely! Just wondering if the procedure in 9.1.1 relates to this
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Old Fri Jan 21, 2011, 11:12am
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Originally Posted by jdw3018 View Post
i'm not sure this is entirely clear in the rules book. My first glance at this would be that it depends on whether he muffed or fumbled - if he muffed it and never had control, i probably don't have a violation. If he had possession out of bounds, he was then under throw-in rules and would have violated by fumbling, the ball entering the court, and m being the first to pick it up. You probably have a violation before that for failing to throw the ball directly onto the court.

Imo, this, in the end, is judgement on whether he truly possessed the ball and was legally out of bounds before everything else happened.
+1
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Old Fri Jan 21, 2011, 12:03pm
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Actually, in the original post, it sounds like you may have had a five second violation.
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Old Fri Jan 21, 2011, 03:18pm
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Originally Posted by Mark Padgett View Post
Actually, in the original post, it sounds like you may have had a five second violation.

Mark:

I agree with you. If the official judges that the ball is at the disposal of the team for a throw-in, then a five second count should start and if the thrower is a klutz that is his problem not the official's problem; assuming that the level of play is H.S. or higher. I might be more lenient for JrHS or lowering, but it would be a HTBT sort of play.

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Old Fri Jan 21, 2011, 03:21pm
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Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
Mark:

I agree with you. If the official judges that the ball is at the disposal of the team for a throw-in, then a five second count should start and if the thrower is a klutz that is his problem not the official's problem; assuming that the level of play is H.S. or higher. I might be more lenient for JrHS or lowering, but it would be a HTBT sort of play.

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hi, new to the forum, still getting the lingo down...what does HTBT mean?

thanks!
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Old Fri Jan 21, 2011, 03:21pm
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Originally Posted by stir22 View Post
hi, new to the forum, still getting the lingo down...what does HTBT mean?

thanks!
Had to be there
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