Line-Up

[whiskers_ump]

Lets give this one a look see. ASA rules being utilized.

Both coaches present their respective line ups to PU, he looks at them,
hands each back and asks if that is what they want. They both say, yes.
Visitors bat in 1st inning. Home team has their first batter at the
plate, when visitors call time and approach the PU with the line up
of home team. PU pulls his copy and reviews. Calls Home team coach
over to conversation. They check with scorekeeper. Converstion
continues, then you hear home team coach screaming thats bull. Next
you hear plate say FLEX is ejected. Team has no subs. Home team failed
to indicate DP/FLEX on lineup sheet. They argue that blue should have noted
10 players listed and done some preventative umpiring and asked which was DP
as everyone knows 10th position is FLEX. Now blue asks visiting coach if
he can just correct sheet and go on. They insist on a penalty. As stated
blue ejects FLEX. Team has nine, don't have an out, because FLEX not batting
away.

How should this situtation been properly handled? No, I was not involved,
got this information in the locker room, but umpires that made ruling were
finished for the day, by schedule and not sure of any other details.

I know how I would have handled it, right or wrong.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by whiskers_ump
Lets give this one a look see. ASA rules being utilized.

Both coaches present their respective line ups to PU, he looks at them,
hands each back and asks if that is what they want. They both say, yes.
Visitors bat in 1st inning. Home team has their first batter at the
plate, when visitors call time and approach the PU with the line up
of home team. PU pulls his copy and reviews. Calls Home team coach
over to conversation. They check with scorekeeper. Converstion
continues, then you hear home team coach screaming thats bull. Next
you hear plate say FLEX is ejected. Team has no subs. Home team failed
to indicate DP/FLEX on lineup sheet. They argue that blue should have noted
10 players listed and done some preventative umpiring and asked which was DP
as everyone knows 10th position is FLEX. Now blue asks visiting coach if
he can just correct sheet and go on. They insist on a penalty. As stated
blue ejects FLEX. Team has nine, don't have an out, because FLEX not batting
away.

How should this situtation been properly handled? No, I was not involved,
got this information in the locker room, but umpires that made ruling were
finished for the day, by schedule and not sure of any other details.

I know how I would have handled it, right or wrong.

Well, unless the batter in the box did not play defense in the previous half inning or the FLEX and there was no announced substitution, I would have corrected the line-up, informed the scorekeeper and then moved on.

I believe this is a correctable situation.

[AtlUmpSteve]

I agree with Mike. According to 4-3.B, the FLEX is placed in the 10th position. The rule does NOT require the word "FLEX" be indicated on the lineup. Since a 10th player was listed, the FLEX was legally in the game, and by inference, the use of the DP is known (4-3.A) prior to the start of the game, and that player's name is indicated in one of the nine hitting positions.

Oh, which player is it? If all players but one have a listed defensive position, the one is the DP. If none have a listed position, that is a clerical error, correctable the same as discovering a wrong uniform number. You want a penalty, visitors? Sorry, none applicable, just a correction.

Plate umpire, learn the process and reasoning behind checking a lineup. The ONLY really necessary things to clarify is the DP, the FLEX, the pitcher and the catcher (to clarify who is initially eligible for a courtesy runner). At least get that part right; then, don't penalize a team incorrectly for not doing your job.

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by AtlUmpSteve
I agree with Mike. According to 4-3.B, the FLEX is placed in the 10th position. The rule does NOT require the word "FLEX" be indicated on the lineup. Since a 10th player was listed, the FLEX was legally in the game, and by inference, the use of the DP is known (4-3.A) prior to the start of the game, and that player's name is indicated in one of the nine hitting positions.

Oh, which player is it? If all players but one have a listed defensive position, the one is the DP. If none have a listed position, that is a clerical error, correctable the same as discovering a wrong uniform number. You want a penalty, visitors? Sorry, none applicable, just a correction.

Plate umpire, learn the process and reasoning behind checking a lineup. The ONLY really necessary things to clarify is the DP, the FLEX, the pitcher and the catcher (to clarify who is initially eligible for a courtesy runner). At least get that part right; then, don't penalize a team incorrectly for not doing your job.

Totally agree with you and Mike. This was my point. Wish the PU of
the game had come back on Sunday so full details would have been
available. Since act took place on first batter, and she was not the
individual in question, I cannot see any violation. Did not see line
up sheet either, but like stated, ten listed, we as umpires now
know we have a FLEX/DP. Not sure if DP listed, but she would be a
legal batter even if leading off. Am trying to contact the PU of the
game, but no answer as of this time.

Thanks, Mike and Steve.

[Steve M]

Be interesting to hear what your PU would have to say, Glen.

I agree with what's already been said. And say again - there's good reason why we check the lineup card at the pre-game.

[whiskers_ump]

Steve,

If and when I hear from him, I will post what he states.

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by Steve M
Be interesting to hear what your PU would have to say, Glen.

I agree with what's already been said. And say again - there's good reason why we check the lineup card at the pre-game.

Ditto!