Klutzy on the End Line

[DesMoines]

Last night, JV Boys. After a made basket A tries to pick up the ball while crossing the end line to throw it in. He got completely out of bounds, but fumbled the ball, half slapped at it, booted it off the back wall (smaller gym) and then it rolled six feet out onto the court. He takes three steps onto the court and picks it up.

I whistled him for a throw in violation.

Coach (who is, BTW, up by 25): He never had possession of the ball out of bounds.

I gave him a "no" head shake and kept on going.

I tried to look it up, but couldn't find a case play or anything. I think that if his team mate had grabbed it, we play on. If it's 5th graders, I probably give it back to him for a do-over, but not JV.

It didn't matter in this case, but I want to make sure it's right next time.

[mbyron]

I think I would have stopped play to let him recover the ball. The ball was never at his disposal if he was fumbling for it, and he was not deliberately running clock.

[jdw3018]

I'm not sure this is entirely clear in the rules book. My first glance at this would be that it depends on whether he muffed or fumbled - if he muffed it and never had control, I probably don't have a violation. If he had possession out of bounds, he was then under throw-in rules and would have violated by fumbling, the ball entering the court, and m being the first to pick it up. You probably have a violation before that for failing to throw the ball directly onto the court.

IMO, this, in the end, is judgement on whether he truly possessed the ball and was legally out of bounds before everything else happened.

[Loudwhistle]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I think I would have stopped play to let him recover the ball. The ball was never at his disposal if he was fumbling for it, and he was not deliberately running clock.

+1 I had a "highly coordinated" JV boy that muffed a perfect bounce pass by me during a throwin. He basically put his hands together before the ball got to him and the ball bounced off his fingers and landed out on the floor. I blew my whistle and said, oops my fault, bad pass! I looked over at his coach as I was getting ready to pass the ball to the kid again and he had a huge grin. It was extremely hard not to smile myself.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle

+1 I had a "highly coordinated" JV boy that muffed a perfect bounce pass by me during a throwin. He basically put his hands together before the ball got to him and the ball bounced off his fingers and landed out on the floor. I blew my whistle and said, oops my fault, bad pass! I looked over at his coach as I was getting ready to pass the ball to the kid again and he had a huge grin. It was extremely hard not to smile myself.

You administered that throw-in, in the OP it was after a made basket.

[Adam]

You said he was trying to grab it. Did he ever have complete control?

[DesMoines]

He grabbed "at" it and slapped it. Almost a dribble, but not quite. Then it hit the back wall and took a couple bounces up the lane.

Just plain ugly. I should probably re-read my own flipping signature line.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by DesMoines

He grabbed "at" it and slapped it. Almost a dribble, but not quite. Then it hit the back wall and took a couple bounces up the lane.

Just plain ugly. I should probably re-read my own flipping signature line.

LOL Yeah, I'd have probably let it go.

[Loudwhistle]

Originally Posted by tref

You administered that throw-in, in the OP it was after a made basket.

Correct, just trying to show that an official can can blow it dead and start things over. Sounded like another "highly coordinated" player. In both instances, the ball was basically muffed for whatever reason.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle

Correct, just trying to show that an official can can blow it dead and start things over. Sounded like another "highly coordinated" player. In both instances, the ball was basically muffed for whatever reason.

Absolutely! Just wondering if the procedure in 9.1.1 relates to this

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

i'm not sure this is entirely clear in the rules book. My first glance at this would be that it depends on whether he muffed or fumbled - if he muffed it and never had control, i probably don't have a violation. If he had possession out of bounds, he was then under throw-in rules and would have violated by fumbling, the ball entering the court, and m being the first to pick it up. You probably have a violation before that for failing to throw the ball directly onto the court.

Imo, this, in the end, is judgement on whether he truly possessed the ball and was legally out of bounds before everything else happened.

+1

[Mark Padgett]

Actually, in the original post, it sounds like you may have had a five second violation.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Actually, in the original post, it sounds like you may have had a five second violation.

Mark:

I agree with you. If the official judges that the ball is at the disposal of the team for a throw-in, then a five second count should start and if the thrower is a klutz that is his problem not the official's problem; assuming that the level of play is H.S. or higher. I might be more lenient for JrHS or lowering, but it would be a HTBT sort of play.

MTD, Sr.

[stir22]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Mark:

I agree with you. If the official judges that the ball is at the disposal of the team for a throw-in, then a five second count should start and if the thrower is a klutz that is his problem not the official's problem; assuming that the level of play is H.S. or higher. I might be more lenient for JrHS or lowering, but it would be a HTBT sort of play.

MTD, Sr.

hi, new to the forum, still getting the lingo down...what does HTBT mean?

thanks!

[RobbyinTN]

Originally Posted by stir22

hi, new to the forum, still getting the lingo down...what does HTBT mean?

thanks!

Had to be there