Correctible/Not Correctible Question

[tref]

Hmmmm sounds like coach shouldve followed CE procedures & got a t/o.

Was there 7 team fouls on the board? You'd think 1 of the 3 officials would check the clock following a whistle...
Personally, I like the crew to be aware at 6.

CE time frames & rules have always confused me, so I choose not to have them in my games (lol) but lets say it got fixed within the limit, would we shoot the 1 & 1 w/the lane cleared then administer the FTs for the shooting foul w/players lined up?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tref

...CE time frames & rules have always confused me, so I choose not to have them in my games (lol) but lets say it got fixed within the limit, would we shoot the 1 & 1 w/the lane cleared then administer the FTs for the shooting foul w/players lined up?

Unfortunately, yes.

[Maineac]

Originally Posted by tref

Was there 7 team fouls on the board? You'd think 1 of the 3 officials would check the clock following a whistle...

No, the scoreboard actually jumped from 6 fouls listed to 8. This also drew attention to the error, although after the fact. What might have drawn attention was the fact the scoreboard stayed on "6" for two fouls in a row, but the two fouls occurred within probably 30 seconds (real time, not clock time) of each other and it was bang-bang.

I don't think anything was fishy, btw. From watching it play out, and this is just my opinion, the R was trying to calculate in his head if the error was still correctible because I doubt it's something he deals with every day. While he was doing that, the ball became live. I thought he made a legit effort to look at correcting it, but then realized the correctible time period had lapsed. That was the reason I asked, so I don't make a similar mistake in the future. It's also why I'm not criticizing, these guys are working varsity games and I'm not. They've been at it alot longer and maybe I missed something.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Maineac

No, the scoreboard actually jumped from 6 fouls listed to 8. This also drew attention to the error, although after the fact. What might have drawn attention was the fact the scoreboard stayed on "6" for two fouls in a row, but the two fouls occurred within probably 30 seconds (real time, not clock time) of each other and it was bang-bang.

I still say...

Originally Posted by tref

You'd think 1 of the 3 officials would check the clock following a whistle...
Personally, I like the crew to be aware at 6.

Originally Posted by Maineac

I don't think anything was fishy, btw. From watching it play out, and this is just my opinion, the R was trying to calculate in his head if the error was still correctible because I doubt it's something he deals with every day. While he was doing that, the ball became live. I thought he made a legit effort to look at correcting it, but then realized the correctible time period had lapsed.

Originally Posted by tref

Hmmmm sounds like coach shouldve followed CE procedures & got a t/o.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by tref

Hmmmm sounds like coach shouldve followed CE procedures & got a t/o.

Hmmm...sounds like the Coach did exactly what a Coach should do and brought the discrepancy to the attention of the nearest official. From that point on, it's all on the official for not taking care of business.

[tref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Hmmm...sounds like the Coach did exactly what a Coach should do and brought the discrepancy to the attention of the nearest official. From that point on, it's all on the official for not taking care of business.

I guess they can do it that way, but the good coaches know:

10-5 ART. 1

The head coach shall remain seated on the team bench, except:

c. The head coach may stand and/or leave the coaching box to confer with personnel at the scorer's table to request a time-out as in 5-8-4.


5-8 ART. 4

Time-out occurs and the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official:

Responds to the scorer's signal to grant a coach's request that a correctable error, as in 2-10, or a timing, scoring or alternating-possession mistake be prevented or rectified. The appeal to the official shall be presented at the scorer's table where a coach of each team may be present.

But whatever, IJS

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by tref

I guess they can do it that way, but the good coaches know:

10-5 ART. 1

The head coach shall remain seated on the team bench, except:

c. The head coach may stand and/or leave the coaching box to confer with personnel at the scorer's table to request a time-out as in 5-8-4.


5-8 ART. 4

Time-out occurs and the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official:

Responds to the scorer's signal to grant a coach's request that a correctable error, as in 2-10, or a timing, scoring or alternating-possession mistake be prevented or rectified. The appeal to the official shall be presented at the scorer's table where a coach of each team may be present.

But whatever, IJS

In the case where a coach calls a timeout to correct a correctable error and then we as officials correct it we don't charge the coach a timeout. Is that correct or have I been watching too many NFL games with the challenge flag?

[tref]

Correct

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

In the case where a coach calls a timeout to correct a correctable error and then we as officials correct it we don't charge the coach a timeout. Is that correct or have I been watching too many NFL games with the challenge flag?

That is correct. Have a look at 5-11-3, Exception b.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

This is exactly why in my games I will tell whoever reports the 6'th foul "Bonus on the next _______." When the 7'th foul is indicated I then put my two forefingers next to each other and spread them apart before recording the foul.In a particularly intense game I may say "One and One ________."This one is about 95% table and 5% officials!

[tref]

No wonder those SoCal officials arrive so quickly

Seriously though, that is great stuff... I cherish the games when I have a competent table crew to assist us!

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

This is exactly why in my games I will tell whoever reports the 6'th foul "Bonus on the next _______." When the 7'th foul is indicated I then put my two forefingers next to each other and spread them apart before recording the foul.In a particularly intense game I may say "One and One ________."This one is about 95% table and 5% officials!

It's why I pay attention to the scoreboard every time we report a foul. There are many occasions where I have had the timer correct the foul count on the scoreboard. And I hate it when the timer posts the team foul on the scoreboard before we report the foul.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by tref

I guess they can do it that way, but the good coaches know:

10-5 ART. 1

The head coach shall remain seated on the team bench, except:

c. The head coach may stand and/or leave the coaching box to confer with personnel at the scorer's table to request a time-out as in 5-8-4.


5-8 ART. 4

Time-out occurs and the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official:

Responds to the scorer's signal to grant a coach's request that a correctable error, as in 2-10, or a timing, scoring or alternating-possession mistake be prevented or rectified. The appeal to the official shall be presented at the scorer's table where a coach of each team may be present.

But whatever, IJS

You can roll your eyes all you want to, but the fact remains that the procedures you pasted from the rule book are designed for a time when the ball is live and in play. That is when the coach may rise and go to the table and at the next dead ball the timer will sound the horn.

In the OP, the ball was not live, the Coach spoke to the official, and the official did not take care of business. He should have held up the free throws, brought both coaches together and handled the CE situation. Trying to pass this off as the Coach not handling it right is quite pathetic.

[tref]

True... not trying to blame the coach, but when the official said he'd take a look at it, I would've called a t/o before the FTs were shot.
Coach knew the CE rule but probably didnt know the time frames.

The blame goes to the table & officials, IMO the coach didnt handle it correctly either.

Bottom line is, we as officials have got to manage that clock & be cognizant of the score, time, fouls, etc.

Its not that hard to do:
1. whistle
2. sneak a peak
3. handle problems before the ball becomes live

No CEs.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by tref

True... not trying to blame the coach, but when the official said he'd take a look at it, I would've called a t/o before the FTs were shot.
Coach knew the CE rule but probably didnt know the time frames.

The blame goes to the table & officials, IMO the coach didnt handle it correctly either.

Agreed.

I assign the blame as:

Table 30%
Officials 65%
Coach 5%