First Game in 4 Hours!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by grunewar

I got to my VG game the other night and between when I last looked at Arbiter and I got to the game there was a change and I moved into the R. Hey, it happens....... It wans't my first V game though.

Funny how this is deemed to be important in some areas. At our games, we self-select the R mainly based on "who did it last game."

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Funny how this is deemed to be important in some areas. At our games, we self-select the R mainly based on "who did it last game."

The R has always been selected with our assignment systems in VT & here in FL. I think that is because the software requires a designation in part. But, the assignor also makes those decisions. I have been R some of the time, but on what would be perceived as less stressful matchups. Which is fine by me. It gives me an opportunity to learn.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Funny how this is deemed to be important in some areas. At our games, we self-select the R mainly based on "who did it last game."

We have a regular crew, just like we do in football. The three of us work together a majority of the time. I am the crew chief, so I'm always listed on Arbiter as the R. When our crew works, we rotate the R position each night. I'm comfortable doing that because we have a veteran crew and I know we're on the same page.

When one of my two partners closes out, and we have a fill-in, I work the R. I don't want someone I'm not as familiar with making a decision as the referee that could get us in hot water. If I'm the one the assignor is going to call the next morning, then I'm calling the shots.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

We have a regular crew, just like we do in football. The three of us work together a majority of the time. I am the crew chief, so I'm always listed on Arbiter as the R. When our crew works, we rotate the R position each night. I'm comfortable doing that because we have a veteran crew and I know we're on the same page.

When one of my two partners closes out, and we have a fill-in, I work the R. I don't want someone I'm not as familiar with making a decision as the referee that could get us in hot water. If I'm the one the assignor is going to call the next morning, then I'm calling the shots.

Seriously, though, what shots do you call? You toss the ball (or designate the tosser) and have defined areas of responsibility as the referee, but the R's responsibilities don't include telling the rest of the crew how to work the game.

If we whack a coach, the R will traditionally file the "loss of coaching box" report with the state, but even there as long as it gets done it doesn't matter who files the report. Of course, we don't have a central assignor and we've only ever had one conference assignor who tried designating the R (he also refused to hire crews, which is the area norm), but he only lasted 2 years in the position.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Seriously, though, what shots do you call? You toss the ball (or designate the tosser) and have defined areas of responsibility as the referee,

My pregame recently as R has included "Other than tossing the ball, there's only a few things that the R alone has responsibility for. Your job as U(s) is to make sure we don't get in any of those situations."

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

My pregame recently as R has included "Other than tossing the ball, there's only a few things that the R alone has responsibility for. Your job as U(s) is to make sure we don't get in any of those situations."

Exactly. But I've worked with Rs who think it's their jobs (you know one of these guys) to tell the Us how to officiate. I want all my partners to be Rs (in the camp-speak vernacular, not as the designated R for the game) and the only time I'll jump in is if we have something weird and I don't know what's going on or I don't think the coaches were adequately notified.

(Example: We had two players get tangled up after a basket. T blew his whistle, stepped in while they untangled, and then got ready to put the ball in play. As the L, I had no idea what happened -- I thought maybe we had a delay-of-game warning, which would need to be recorded. The coach in my lap had *no* idea what had happened. So I hit my whistle and asked my partner and then communicated to both benches. I was the R on the game, but I would've done the same had I been the U1 or U2 in the book.)

[mj]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

My pregame recently as R has included "Other than tossing the ball, there's only a few things that the R alone has responsibility for. Your job as U(s) is to make sure we don't get in any of those situations."

Great advice Bob.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Seriously, though, what shots do you call? You toss the ball (or designate the tosser) and have defined areas of responsibility as the referee, but the R's responsibilities don't include telling the rest of the crew how to work the game.

Never said it did.

The shots I call are related directly to the referee's responsibilities. Most specifically, that's addressing any issues that might occur with the table crew and the proper administration of the game. I can't, and I'm not going to, over rule a call but as the R I'm going to make sure we properly penalize anything that's called. We're going to discuss situations as needed and if a decision has to be made, I'll make it.

For example, this happened in a game two years ago when we had a fill-in.

Second half, A1 is holding the ball in the low post when B1 attempts to grab it. A1 is doing a good job avoiding the held ball when there's a whistle from the trail. TWEET, "TIMEOUT!" He grants a timeout to Coach B. Coach A gives me a "WTF" look? I have to agree.

We grant the timeout to B. After the timeout, I explained to her that A1 had possession of the ball and that the timeout should not have been granted. As such, it's A's ball on the endline.

Had I not been the R, the situation could have been more difficult to correct.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Never said it did.

The "shots" I call are related directly to the referee's responsibilities. Most specifically, that's addressing any issues that might occur with the table crew and the proper administration of the game. I can't, and I'm not going to, over rule a call but as the R I'm going to make sure we properly penalize anything that's called. We're going to discuss situations as needed and if a decision has to be made, I'll make it.

For example, this happened in a game two years ago when we had a fill-in.

Second half, A1 is holding the ball in the low post when B1 attempts to grab it. A1 is doing a good job avoiding the held ball when there's a whistle from the trail. TWEET, "TIMEOUT!" He grants a timeout to Coach B. Coach A gives me a "WTF" look? I have to agree.

We grant the timeout to B. After the timeout, I explained to her that A1 had possession of the ball and that the timeout should not have been granted. As such, it's A's ball on the endline.

Had I not been the R, the situation could have been more difficult to correct.

Why? Any official can screw that up and once the whistle blows the only choice is to enforce it as an IW and give the ball back to A. I can make that mistake if I'm the R, U1, or U2. If the R granted that timeout, I would make sure that I stepped in and made sure that we got it right.

I don't see any magical powers required here.

I usually let the junior person (if I'm working with a stranger) "be the R" if only to let that person lead the pregame, etc. Once the game starts, it's usually obvious if one official's stronger than the other, anyway.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Why? Any official can screw that up and once the whistle blows the only choice is to enforce it as an IW and give the ball back to A.

Umm...if B's coach requested the TO, and it was incorrectly granted (because A still had the ball), the TO is still awared and taken under Fed. rules. It's an IW only under NCAA rules, I believe.

Maybe that's why Tony needed to step in as the R.

But, otherwise, I agree with both of you. Of course, there aren't any "magical powers" associated with the duty, but sometimes a stronger personality is needed on a crew, and that person is usually better off being the R.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Umm...if B's coach requested the TO, and it was incorrectly granted (because A still had the ball), the TO is still awared and taken under Fed. rules. It's an IW only under NCAA rules, I believe.

Maybe that's why Tony needed to step in as the R.

But, otherwise, I agree with both of you. Of course, there aren't any "magical powers" associated with the duty, but sometimes a stronger personality is needed on a crew, and that person is usually better off being the R.

The *whistle* is an IW. The timeout is then granted by rule.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Why? Any official can screw that up and once the whistle blows the only choice is to enforce it as an IW and give the ball back to A. I can make that mistake if I'm the R, U1, or U2. If the R granted that timeout, I would make sure that I stepped in and made sure that we got it right.

That's great unless you get the occasional idiot assigned with you. What if the guy who you made the R says, "No, I'm the referee and this is what we're going to do"? Then we have a problem on the floor where officials are disagreeing with each other. For example:

I was working the bases in a rec league baseball game a few years ago. As the pitcher came set while looking at the runner at 2nd, the batter stepped out of the box. The pitcher started his motion and stopped when he saw the batter out of the box. The idiot behind the plate called a balk. I tried to explain that it was clearly defined in the rules that this was not a balk. Coach B also knew the rule and it didn't take long to get ugly. In the end, the idiot wouldn't listen.

So please don't tell me it can't be an advantage to be the head official in such a situation. No, my way, that's not going to happen when I have a choice.

I don't see any magical powers required here.

Magical? No. By rule? Yes. They're listed in rules 2-3 and 2-5.

I usually let the junior person (if I'm working with a stranger) "be the R" if only to let that person lead the pregame, etc. Once the game starts, it's usually obvious if one official's stronger than the other, anyway.

I can have the junior person give the pregame. I can even have him toss the ball if I want to. I don't need to make him the R to do that.

There's no right or wrong here. If that works for you, great. Hope it doesn't bite you in the a$$ some day. My way works for me and that's the way I will continue to work it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I don't see any magical powers required here.

IAABO mechanics mandate that when a technical foul is charged to the head coach, then the referee, and only the referee, will inform the head coach that he, or she, is required to sit down.

Here, in our little corner of the Constitution State, we have decided to ignore that mechanic. We have the noncalling official infom the head coach that he, or she, is required to sit down.

I just discovered that this season. Got that question wrong on the IAABO mechanics exam.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Seriously, though, what shots do you call? You toss the ball (or designate the tosser) and have defined areas of responsibility as the referee, but the R's responsibilities don't include telling the rest of the crew how to work the game.
...

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Never said it did.

The shots I call are related directly to the referee's responsibilities. ...
Had I not been the R, the situation could have been more difficult to correct.

Well, in this situation, who was or wasn't the 'R' definitely affected the game.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Well, in this situation, who was or wasn't the 'R' definitely affected the game.

Problem is that even if he was the R that poster may not have been able to do anything. Some crusty veterans (whose main crust is the one that forms on their rulebooks) simply won't yield and simply don't care who the R is. There's a fine line between "being the R" and having a situation escalate into a full argument on the court between the two officials.

Trust me, about this time last year I was posting about a similar situation.