Bad Backcourt Call by Partner. What to do?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

A tip does not establish control, but a tip does end the throw-in. If the ball is tipped by either team, then caught by A1 who jumped from the frontcourt and lands in the backcourt, this is a violation.

And that a point that could be a subject of the "if you could change one rule" thread.

[Bishopcolle]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

And that a point that could be a subject of the "if you could change one rule" thread.

I still think that is not right, to respectfully disagree. There has to be control established before the backcourt kicks in....and the tip, while it ends the throwin, does not establish control. If A2 catches the tipped ball in the air, and lands in backcourt, no backcourt violation. If A2 throws it (controlled) into backcourt to A3 then you have control and a backcourt violation. I believe this to be true, due to my training about the necessity of control first, but I can be convinced otherwise (and should be), if that is the case....thanks for your thoughts....

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Bishopcolle

I still think that is not right, to respectfully disagree. There has to be control established before the backcourt kicks in....and the tip, while it ends the throwin, does not establish control. If A2 catches the tipped ball in the air, and lands in backcourt, no backcourt violation. If A2 throws it (controlled) into backcourt to A3 then you have control and a backcourt violation. I believe this to be true, due to my training about the necessity of control first, but I can be convinced otherwise (and should be), if that is the case....thanks for your thoughts....

9.9.1D is this exact play. I don't like it either, but by rule, it is a violation.

[Bishopcolle]

Originally Posted by just another ref

9.9.1D is this exact play. I don't like it either, but by rule, it is a violation.

Whoa...you're right! Thanks...it protects only the first player who touches..9.9.1E shows how it protects the first player only...thanks for the clarification...before I screw it up on the court....

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Bishopcolle

I still think that is not right, to respectfully disagree. There has to be control established before the backcourt kicks in....and the tip, while it ends the throwin, does not establish control. If A2 catches the tipped ball in the air, and lands in backcourt, no backcourt violation. If A2 throws it (controlled) into backcourt to A3 then you have control and a backcourt violation. I believe this to be true, due to my training about the necessity of control first, but I can be convinced otherwise (and should be), if that is the case....thanks for your thoughts....

I'm not sure what's so hard about this. Don't these 2 statements contradict each other? Once A2 catches the ball, control is established, by rule, and A2's court location is also established, by rule. Definite violation.

Also, to me at least, the throw-in exception makes sense in that the exception applies only during a throw-in. And, according to the rule, the throw-in ends when the ball is legally touched in-bounds, so it makes sense the exception ends at that moment as well.

[Bishopcolle]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

I'm not sure what's so hard about this. Don't these 2 statements contradict each other? Once A2 catches the ball, control is established, by rule, and A2's court location is also established, by rule. Definite violation.

Also, to me at least, the throw-in exception makes sense in that the exception applies only during a throw-in. And, according to the rule, the throw-in ends when the ball is legally touched in-bounds, so it makes sense the exception ends at that moment as well.

No, I agree with all of that, now knowing that the rule protects only the first to tip. A2 catching a tipped ball is NOT protected and hence a backcourt violation occurs. If the ball tips from his hand (first to touch), that is not considered control, and he is protected into the backcourt without a violation. Again, I am learning this application, but that is the way I read the casebook and rule book.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Bishopcolle

No, I agree with all of that, now knowing that the rule protects only the first to tip. A2 catching a tipped ball is NOT protected and hence a backcourt violation occurs. If the ball tips from his hand (first to touch), that is not considered control, and he is protected into the backcourt without a violation. Again, I am learning this application, but that is the way I read the casebook and rule book.

Right result, wrong reason.

When A2 leaps and catches the ball, he has established player and team control. If he jumped from the FC, then he has established FC location along with team control. The exception does not say control isn't established, it just says he can land in the BC. It's an exception, but control is still established.