BackCourt Mistake by Partner (What would you do?)

[hbioteach]

A1 dribbles in back court and picks up dribble straddling division line. Pivots on back court foot and partner (trail) calls back court.

Obvious mistake. Not back court because front court status was not acheived.

I spoke to partner after the game about the call. He realized he made a mistake.

Should I have stopped play and discussed call with partner and then coaches and corrected the error?

I spoke to a very experienced official about this situation. He said you want to get the call right even though this is not a correctable error.

Thoughts?

[Adam]

If you're in a position to see it, you can approach your partner and offer your view. Let him choose, though. If you're not in a position to see it clearly, let it go. Was this a 3-whistle crew?

[rockyroad]

Run over to partner and discuss it...let partner have your info and then let partner decide what to do with that info...then be ready to answer the inevitable "Why were you looking there?" questions...

A similiar situation last night - I'm T, pass from wing (C-side)to point guard at head of key goes awry and is headed for backcourt and my sideline...not much room between table and sideline, so I get pinned as players go by me and end up running up the court after them...as offensive player picks up the ball, I hit whistle and call backcourt violation...behind my back, my C was trying to signal me that the pass was tipped...C hit whistle, comes in, gives me info, and we give the ball back to black...worked out great...(except for the stat guy's coke that I knocked over on the table, but oh well)...

[hbioteach]

2 man crew. I'm the L looking up the line because A1 is near the sideline being trapped.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by hbioteach
2 man crew. I'm the L looking up the line because A1 is near the sideline being trapped.

I wouldn't interfere with this call from 45 feet away. Let it go.

BTW, I know this is your line and all but there's really no reason for you to be refereeing action way up there. IMO you should have stayed off the ball and the T should have come way over to handle the trap. Unless there's a tip or something funny he can help with the OOB call.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by hbioteach
2 man crew. I'm the L looking up the line because A1 is near the sideline being trapped.

Well, that's 2 of you looking at maybe 3 players. Who's got the other 7?

[Maverick]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Well, that's 2 of you looking at maybe 3 players. Who's got the other 7?

I agree that this leaves players unwatched but I've always thought I should watch the sideline - not necessarily back court - because the T is too far away to see a step/dribble on that sideline (2 whistle crew). I don't know what the best way is to do it but I guess I've always taken the view that there's more to miss by not watching the sideline than not watching the other players who are usually just waiting for the ball to get down there. Not saying I'm right but it seems you have to choose the lesser of two evils and usually more is happening at the ball.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

I wouldn't interfere with this call from 45 feet away. Let it go.

BTW, I know this is your line and all but there's really no reason for you to be refereeing action way up there. IMO you should have stayed off the ball and the T should have come way over to handle the trap. Unless there's a tip or something funny he can help with the OOB call.

I disagree...to a point. The lead is the ONLY one in position to cover the line. The trail, even in perfect postition on a cross court trap will NOT have a view of the line that will do them any good. I've seen partners try to cover the line that way and get it wrong...badly wrong (player that was 1-2 feet from the line was called OOB). The trail can, of course, know who tipped the ball out when it is knocked OOB.

That said, the lead should only glance up that direction when the play is "REAL" close to the line...not where the pivot foot is. The lead will need to alternate his vision up the line and off ball. It's a tough area to cover in 2-man but there is no other good way to do it short of a full rotation where the trail crosses the court completely.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Camron Rust

I disagree...to a point. The lead is the ONLY one in position to cover the line. The trail, even in perfect postition on a cross court trap will NOT have a view of the line that will do them any good. I've seen partners try to cover the line that way and get it wrong...badly wrong (player that was 1-2 feet from the line was called OOB). The trail can, of course, know who tipped the ball out when it is knocked OOB.

That said, the lead should only glance up that direction when the play is "REAL" close to the line...not where the pivot foot is. The lead will need to alternate his vision up the line and off ball. It's a tough area to cover in 2-man but there is no other good way to do it short of a full rotation where the trail crosses the court completely.

I don't think we disagree at all. The T has the players on the trap and since there's no one left except for the L he needs to concentrate off ball & not be as concerned with the sideline.

[Adam]

As the L on this, I doubt very much that I'm going to have clear enough view of it. If I did, I'd likely let it go assuming my partner saw it better than I did. I would honestly assume he saw something I didn't.
To me, this isn't one of those go-get'm infractions.

[M&M Guy]

I don't think there's any disagreement about staying in your area. There's sure to be some discussion about whether or not you should've been looking up there, especially since that is your line to call, but what if there are players starting to get position in the paint? But, that being said, I think your question is more along the lines of how much help do you give your partner? This is one of those areas you have to be careful about, and you MUST pre-game this with your partner(s). If you offer too much help, you end up becoming one of those "terrible partners" being discussed on some of the other threads. I'm sure if you ask those "partners", they will tell you they're just helping out the poor rookie who doesn't know when to call a foul. That's the WRONG time to help. Stay in your area and let your partner live and die with their judgement. But you do want to get a situation right, where it's obvious your partner needs help, like where a ball gets tipped before going OOB. After your partner points the wrong direction, and I know it's wrong, and so does everyone in the gym, I will go to my partner and give them my information. But, don't go to them and say, "Hey, just curious, did you happen to see it go off blue?". If someone came up to me and said that, I would say "No" and stay with my call. But, when we pre-game this, I tell my partners "If you're coming up to me with information, such as "the ball went off blue", I know I missed it, and I will change my call." Don't change my call for me, but let me make the final decision.

So, yes, the idea is to get the calls right. But be careful, don't do it often, and pre-game this with your partner(s).

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

I don't think we disagree at all. The T has the players on the trap and since there's no one left except for the L he needs to concentrate off ball & not be as concerned with the sideline.

But he does have to be concerned with the sideline. The trail doesn't/can't have the angle to see it. The lead will just have to divide his attention between off-ball and the line. The lead should not be concerned with anything else but the line when looking up the line.

[davidw]

[/QUOTE]
But he does have to be concerned with the sideline. The trail doesn't/can't have the angle to see it. The lead will just have to divide his attention between off-ball and the line. The lead should not be concerned with anything else but the line when looking up the line. [/B][/QUOTE]

Ahh! The joy of 3 person mechanics. I didn't realize what I was truly missing til this year. We are not forced into those compromises. How did I live without the 3rd whistle for so long?

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by davidw

But he does have to be concerned with the sideline. The trail doesn't/can't have the angle to see it. The lead will just have to divide his attention between off-ball and the line. The lead should not be concerned with anything else but the line when looking up the line. [/QUOTE]

Ahh! The joy of 3 person mechanics. I didn't realize what I was truly missing til this year. We are not forced into those compromises. How did I live without the 3rd whistle for so long? [/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah - I've been spoiled by 3-person in rec ball.

Don't know how I'm going to survive out in the "real world" next year.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

But he does have to be concerned with the sideline. The trail doesn't/can't have the angle to see it. The lead will just have to divide his attention between off-ball and the line. The lead should not be concerned with anything else but the line when looking up the line.

Ahh! The joy of 3 person mechanics. I didn't realize what I was truly missing til this year. We are not forced into those compromises. How did I live without the 3rd whistle for so long? [/QUOTE]

Yeah - I've been spoiled by 3-person in rec ball.

Don't know how I'm going to survive out in the "real world" next year. [/B][/QUOTE]

So you graduate in June? Got any plans?