Pass that goes in.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

New sitch:
A1, standing in the three point area at the wing, attempts a bounce pass to A2 at the top of the key. Just as he releases the pass, B2 comes running down the court between A1 and A2 (he was late) and the ball hits his knee before hitting the floor, and flies into the hoop.

Decide what to call it while explaining Coach B that it does count because it was not a kicked ball.

[Scratch85]

I've been trying to reconcile these two case plays all night. Here is my latest version.

5.2.1C

A ball that is thrown into a teams own goal from behind the three-point arc scores three points. So a ball that is thrown by A1 into A1's goal from behind the three point-arc scores three points regardless of being legally touched by a B player inside or outside A's three-point arc. It is the result of an action started by A1 and ending by going through A's basket.



4.41.4B

Since the try has ended and team control does not exist, any touch by B1 would now be considered a tap, try, throw or action started by B1. By rule, a three-point goal can only be scored at a teams own goal. So B1 can't score a three-point goal at A's basket. As opposed to 5.2.1C where the action is clearly a thrown ball (still in TC) by A1.


5.2.1D

This case play has a throw-in by team A being touched at the FT line and then goes directly through A's basket. Again no team control so any touch by B, whether inside or outside A's three-point arc would result in two points. The throw in ends and B cannot score a three-point goal in A's basket. My thoughts are that if A1 deflected the throw-in and was outside the three-point arc, it would score three points for A.

I am having a hard time putting my thoughts into words on this one. I hope I have described it coherently.

And I can't place trajectory as having anything to do with it.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

. But we're supposed to give the offense 3 points if it's a pass but 2 if it's a try?

Two entirely different situations.

The 3 point try is attempted. Team control has ended. The try is missed. It's now a rebound as the try has ENDED.

A pass is made from behind the 3 point line. Team control still exists. The ball hits B1 and goes in the basket. Yes, by rule and case play, that is a 3.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

New sitch:
A1, standing in the three point area at the wing, attempts a bounce pass to A2 at the top of the key. Just as he releases the pass, B2 comes running down the court between A1 and A2 (he was late) and the ball hits his knee before hitting the floor, and flies into the hoop.

Here, we call that a kicked ball.

[gslefeb]

Play 1.
A1 passes to A2 – from top of key to wing area, outside 3pt line.

Play 2
A1 throws ball to the basket from outside the 3pt line, ball is short of Rim and falls below Rim

In Play 2, if B3 hits the ball after it is below the Rim, we have a case play that says it is only worth two points as the try has ended.

In both plays the thrown balls do not have a chance to go in, therefore they are not considered a try (or the try has ended).

How does play 1 differ from play 2?

In play 1 if B3 hits the ball below the rim and it goes into the basket, why would you award 3pts?

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by gslefeb

Play 1.
A1 passes to A2 – from top of key to wing area, outside 3pt line.

In play 1 if B3 hits the ball below the rim and it goes into the basket, why would you award 3pts?

Because A1 started an action (throwing the ball from outside the 3-point arc) that ended with the live ball (still in team A's control) going through A's basket.

[gslefeb]

So how is that different then the case play (play 2)? That was a live ball that started from outside the 3pt line and went into the basket. We award 2pts for this play.

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by gslefeb

Play 1.
A1 passes to A2 – from top of key to wing area, outside 3pt line.

Play 2
A1 throws ball to the basket from outside the 3pt line, ball is short of Rim and falls below Rim

In Play 2, if B3 hits the ball after it is below the Rim, we have a case play that says it is only worth two points as the try has ended.

In both plays the thrown balls do not have a chance to go in, therefore they are not considered a try (or the try has ended).

How does play 1 differ from play 2?

Play 1 is the result of A's throwing action. Play 2 is the result of B3's action.

No team control during a shot. The shot is given the opportunity to end. When it ends, the ball has no "ownership" (can't think of a better word) and the next action started is the touch by B3.

B3 cannot score a three-point goal in A's basket. No matter B3's location. If B3 got the rebound, ran out beyond A's 3-point arc and threw the ball into A's basket, it would still be 2 points. The two actions by B3 described here are treated the same by rule.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by gslefeb

Play 2
A1 throws ball to the basket from outside the 3pt line, ball is short of Rim and falls below Rim

What you have stated is defined as a try in the rule book.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

What you have stated is defined as a try in the rule book.

Disagree. The definition of a try specifies intent: A try.....is an attempt....to score........

The thrown ball could obviously be a pass attempt.

[gslefeb]

So....from outside the 3pt line.

A pass from A1 to A2 - that does not have a chance to go in, deflects off B3 into the basket - we award 3pts.

A try by A1 - that does not have a chance to go in (try ends), defects off B3 into the basket - we award 2pts.

_____
A1 lobs ball into A2 post play - not a try - as the ball does not have a chance to go in (5 feet short), B2 jumps to deflect the ball and it goes in. Since this was a pass, 3pts.

A1 lobs ball into A2 post play, possible try as the ball still has a chance to go in, seeing the ball is less then 1 ft short - I deemed it to be a try. As the ball falls below the rim, B2 jumps to deflect the ball and it goes in. Since I "thought" this was a try, only 2pts.

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by gslefeb

So....from outside the 3pt line.

A pass from A1 to A2 - that does not have a chance to go in, deflects off B3 into the basket - we award 3pts.

A try by A1 - that does not have a chance to go in (try ends), defects off B3 into the basket - we award 2pts.

_____
A1 lobs ball into A2 post play - not a try - as the ball does not have a chance to go in (5 feet short), B2 jumps to deflect the ball and it goes in. Since this was a pass, 3pts.

A1 lobs ball into A2 post play, possible try as the ball still has a chance to go in, seeing the ball is less then 1 ft short - I deemed it to be a try. As the ball falls below the rim, B2 jumps to deflect the ball and it goes in. Since I "thought" this was a try, only 2pts.

If you meant that A1's action in all 4 sitchs started beyond the 3-point arc, I agree with your rulings.

In your last sitch, you "judged" it to be a try. So you rule on it as a try.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Disagree. The definition of a try specifies intent: A try.....is an attempt....to score........

The thrown ball could obviously be a pass attempt.

How convenient for you. You decide to leave out a bunch of words. Let me do that, too.

"A try is...throwing the ball...to a team's own basket."


A pass attempt is to a teammate.

He said, "A1 throws ball to the basket from outside the 3pt line,..."

The basket is NOT a teammate.