Pass Play: Inelgible/Pass Int or Nothing

[BoBo]

What is the input on the following plays

4th and 4 from A's 45

QB A10 drops back to pass. A22 is behind the line of scrimmage. Lineman A55 is down field.

Play 1. Ball goes thru A22 hands and lands on the 50 yard line. A55 is downfield but has not made contact with any B players.

What do you have??

Play 2. Ball goes thru A22 hands and lands on the 50 yard line. A55 is downfield and is blocking B44.

What do you have?

I know what i am calling curious how others view this.

[boboman316]

1) Inelgiable down field
2) OPI

[BoBo]

Ditto i agree on both accounts.

In play one inelgibel downfield 5 yards from the previous spot and replay the down ( in this case probably declined and ball turned over on downs)

In play two you have offensive pass interference. 15 yards from the previous spot and loss of down. B will take this penalty. B will have 1st and 10 from A's 30 yard line. (i hate the opi enforcement in hs fb for this reason here, very harsh penalty. we have discussed before officials tend not to call opi for that reason would rather see 5 yards and loss of down, off the soap box)

I see many times on these two plays where the pass goes incomplete past the line of scrimmage and absolutely no call.

[Matt-MI]

If A22 touches the ball behind the LOS then I have nothing, if it goes beyond the LOS untouched I agree with you,

[wheels]

I have nothing on both if A22 touches the ball behind the LOZ. Untouch and it lands beyond the LOZ, then I have OPI.

[Suudy]

When reading this post, I initially agreed with Matt-MI and wheels. But, I decided to go to the rule book to confirm my intial ruling.

Rule 7.5.12 says that the ineligible downfield restriction does not end with touching by A--only touching by B (in or behind the NZ). So, A55 is guilty of being an ineligible downfield in play 1.

Also, rule 7.5.8 says that PI restrictions are in effect until the pass is touched or the pass is incomplete. Now in the original post, the blocking by A55 was beyond the NZ before the pass was touched by A22.

Now combining this with 7.5.7, which says that PI restrictions only apply beyond the NZ and only if the pass, untouched by B crosses the NZ, I think A55 is guilty of PI in play 2.

I realized I screwed up the rule references. I fixed them.

[BoBo]

Suudy thanks for the rule references.

I just thru out it out there for people to think about. It is a play that i will bet goes uncalled this is just a guess 80% of the time.

My umpire and I discuss this before every game and we call it. Some coaches argue but the rule book backs us up. til it gets changed there is nothing i can do

[Robert Goodman]

[QUOTE=BoBo(i hate the opi enforcement in hs fb for this reason here, very harsh penalty.[/QUOTE]
Used to be that in NCAA too. But before that, when I was a child, it was loss of ball (which admittedly on 4th down would be nuthin').

[Matt-MI]

Suudy

For the first situation the reason I would not have a flag is what I underlined:

7-5-12 Ineligible A players may not advance beyond the expanded neutral zone on a legal forward pass play before a legal forward pass that crosses the neutral zone is in flight.

I stand corrected on situation 2

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by Matt-MI

For the first situation the reason I would not have a flag is what I underlined:

7-5-12 Ineligible A players may not advance beyond the expanded neutral zone on a legal forward pass play before a legal forward pass that crosses the neutral zone is in flight.

I don't understand. It is still a pass, even if A22 touches it behind the NZ. The pass does end up crossing the NZ, and A55 is beyond the ENZ.

The only ways I see 7.5.12 exonerating A55, is if A55 is downfield after the pass is in flight, or if the ball is touched by B in or behind the NZ. Touching by A is not addressed. Of course the timing of the original play isn't posted, so we don't know if A55 is downfield before the pass is thrown. But we do know the ball is not touched by B.

[BoBo]

I guess i really should have been REALLY anal as to where everybody was at on the field.

The lineman are downfield preparing to block or engaging in the block.

Basically i was looking for reenforcement that the lineman are down field say 3plus yards and the inelgibel or pass int calls would be correct.

Thanks for everybody's opinion