I think chseagle was my timer tonight

[mbyron]

I had a partner ask me last night during warmups how "strict" I was about having all the names in the book by 10 minutes. I "reminded" him that the rule does not require having all the names in the book; it requires that the team provide the scorers with a roster.

He said, "Oh, that's right."

[just another ref]

And this part cannot be overstated: Even if there is no list submitted at all, it is not any part of the timer's job to do or say anything.

[chseagle]

Like I stated it was my understanding of the rules, as I am used to the rosters having to be in the scorebook by the 10:00 minute mark, not just a printed list outside the scorebook.

It goes to show you differences in areas & training in positions.

Of course I know it's never ALWAYS going to happen for the Sub-V games where I've had my training as scorer. However I have done my share of table operations for V games & have seen it happen before & have been to enough V games as either bench personnel/security/table to have seen it happen that a player is "accidently" forgotten to be listed yet an administrative T has still been called.

As stated before I have, as has my wife, seen it called as a Technical before as not always are printed rosters correct as to names/numbers or a printed roster is not supplied to the scorer.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Like I stated it was my understanding of the rules, as I am used to the rosters having to be in the scorebook by the 10:00 minute mark, not just a printed list outside the scorebook.

Think about this for just a moment; you're saying the coaches are to be held responsible for the inaction of the scorer.

Sitch: Coaches both provide rosters to the scorer at the 15:00 mark. Right after getting the home team entered, the scorer has to go to the bathroom. He returns at the 9:00 mark and completes the book. Your understanding would have a T called on the Visitors here?

It's easier for us if it's in the book at 10, but we can't call a T here if the coach has done his job.

[biggravy]

I guess I am less tolerant as well. The administrator would be putting a sub at the table. No way I am continuing in that spot w/o him/her gone.

Chseagle, people are explaining things just great. You however have a lack of simple comprehension. This is a forum for REFEREES. People who wear striped shirts and whistles. You fail to comprehend that. You want to discuss your duties and all the authority you exude. We don't care. You are a T-I-M-E-R, not a R-E-F-E-R-E-E. You fail to understand that. Somehow, people reply to your trolling and actually discuss rules with you. They explain the rules and your duties to you. You fail to understand that. Finally, it has become painfully obvious that you have some kind of authority complex. You are hung up on not only officiating, but security and anything else that puts you in a position of power over people. You are a timer. You have no authority. Even if you did, authority will never make people respect you. Anyway, officiating basketball is not about authority. It is just about being a part of an educational experience for high school students. Since you want control over people, go start a cult. My Christmas wish is to see you banned from this forum, and I would suggest some psychological help to deal with your authority issues.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by biggravy

I guess I am less tolerant as well. The administrator would be putting a sub at the table. No way I am continuing in that spot w/o him/her gone.

"I explained the problem and asked him if he had another ECO. He said no but asked if he could talk to him and take care of the problem."

So you're going to refuse to rstart the game? You're going to forfeit the game? You're going to leave and go home?

[biggravy]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

"I explained the problem and asked him if he had another ECO. He said no but asked if he could talk to him and take care of the problem."

So you're going to refuse to rstart the game? You're going to forfeit the game? You're going to leave and go home?

Just don't think I would have 'explained the problem'. I would have said "he/she needs to go."

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by biggravy

We don't care. You are a timer, not a referee. My Christmas wish is to see you banned from this forum.

Not everyone shares this opinion. I for one, do appreciate that we have table personnel, like SCalScoreKeeper, and chseagle, posting on the Forum. They certainly are an important part of the game, although not as important as chseagle thinks, and I believe that they can contribute a lot to this Forum. They can certainly provide a different perspective, much different than the officials, coaches, and fanboys that post here.

Now, that being said. chseagle: Please shut your mouth, and open your ears.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Not everyone shares this opinion. I for one, do appreciate that we have table personnel, like SCalScoreKeeper, and chseagle, posting on the Forum. They certainly are an important part of the game, although not as important as chseagle thinks, and I believe that they can contribute a lot to this Forum. They can certainly provide a different perspective, much different than the officials, coaches, and fanboys that post here.

Now, that being said. chseagle: Please shut your mouth, and open your ears.

Several months ago I posed a suggestion that we take up a collection to fund a website to host the official timekeeper/scorer/crowd control discussion on a server in Borneo. Naturally, Timerguy would be the admin and charter member.
Donations accepted by [email protected].
Give til it hurts!

[comical]

A few years ago I left a visiting player's name and number out of the book and didn't realize it until after the game had started (the visitors didn't have anyone at the table with a book). I usually have a coach from the visiting school check the book but for some reason didn't that night (I don't remember why).

I didn't say anything to anybody, just added the player's name and number to the book. It was my mistake and I just fixed it. That might not have been the way to handle it, but that's what I did.

[BillyMac]

And it ain't even about us.

chseagle: Check out page seven of the NFHS rulebook. It doesn't have a number on it, but it's still a rule, a very important rule: "It is important to know the intent and purpose of a rule so that it may be intelligently applied in each play situation."

One intent and purpose of the "ten minute rule" is to ensure that rosters are written in the scorebooks before the game starts, so that we're not holding up the jump ball to start the game while the table is copying names, and numbers, into their respective scorebooks. Another intent and purpose is so that we don't have to hold up the game after the game starts to add a players name, and number, into the book. Officials, players, coaches, and fans want the kids play basketball, they don't want to watch scorekeepers making additions, or corrections, in the scorebook. And they certainly don't want to watch us officiating a free throw contest before clock actually starts.

I've been doing this for thirty years. Do you know how many times the book hasn't been "ready" at the ten minute mark? If I got a dollar every time it happened, I could buy a round, or two, of adult beverages after the game for all my pals. Do you know how many technical fouls I've seen charged for the book not being "ready" at the ten minute mark? None. I've officiated over 700 high school games, and, probably, three, or four times, as many lower level games. Do you know how many games I've started with something other than a jump ball? None.

As an official, you just don't want to start the game with "administrative" free throws. Officials will always bend over backwards to work with coaches, and the table crew, within the intent and purpose of the rules, to start the game with a jump ball, the way, God, and Dr. Naismith, intended it. In thirty years, I have found all head coaches, and all table crew members, to fully agree with me.

Now, would someone please help me down from this soapbox. I'm getting dizzy up here.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Start the game with a jump ball, the way, God, and Dr. Naismith, intended it.

Wait a minute? Did I really post this? Wow. Sometimes chseagle can really get me worked up. Maybe the soapbox was way too high, and the lack of oxygen at that altitude effected my brain, and confused me?

[chseagle]

Finally a constructive "non-condescending" answer/

All I have been doing is mentioning my understanding of rules & yet almost everyone that responds is trying to turn my a$$ into the grand canyon with no rhyme/reason except to exert their manhood where it does not belong.

Like stated a million times before (over-exaggerated) I am wanting to learn the proper meanings/reasonings behind the rules, yet majority of the time instead of politely explaining the proper use/meaning of the rule I am being fed to the wolves for just asking for clarifications.

Sorry to say this but almost everyone on here miserably fails as teachers as cannot calmly explain with rational thinking how/why a rule is written compared to how it is understood.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

And it's not even about us.

chseagle: Check out page seven of the NFHS rulebook. It doesn't have a number on it, but it's still a rule, a very important rule:
"Therefore, it is important to know the intent and purpose of a rule so that it may be intelligently applied in each play situation."

One intent and purpose of the "ten minute rule" is to ensure that rosters are written in the scorebooks before the game starts, so that we're not holding up the jump ball to start the game while the table is copying names, and numbers, into their respective scorebooks. Another intent and purpose is so that we don't have to hold up the game after the game starts to add a players name, and number, into the book. Officials, players, coaches, and fans want the kids play basketball, they don't want to watch scorekeepers making additions, or corrections, in the scorebook. And they certainly don't want to watch us officiating a free throw contest before clock actually starts.

I've been doing this for thirty years. Do you know how many times the book hasn't been "ready" at the ten minute mark? Dozens. Do you know how many technical fouls I've seen charged for the book not being "ready" at the ten minute mark? None. I've officiated over 700 high school games, and, probably, three, or four times, as many lower level games. Do you know how many games I've started with something other than a jump ball? None.

As an official, you just don't want to start the game with "administrative" free throws. Officials will always bend over backwards to work with coaches, and the table crew, within the intent and purpose of the rules, to start the game with a jump ball, the way, God, and Dr. Naismith, intended it. In thirty years, I have found all head coaches, and all table crew members, to fully agree with me.

Now, would someone please help me down from this soapbox. I'm getting dizzy up here.

BillyMac, your soapbox (to me) was only about 1-2 feet off the ground.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Finally a constructive "non-condescending" answer/

All I have been doing is mentioning my understanding of rules & yet almost everyone that responds is trying to turn my a$$ into the grand canyon with no rhyme/reason except to exert their manhood where it does not belong.

Like stated a million times before (over-exaggerated) I am wanting to learn the proper meanings/reasonings behind the rules, yet majority of the time instead of politely explaining the proper use/meaning of the rule I am being fed to the wolves for just asking for clarifications.

Sorry to say this but almost everyone on here miserably fails as teachers as cannot calmly explain with rational thinking how/why a rule is written compared to how it is understood.

Maybe if you just accepted the damn answers that are being given to you by some very knowledgable officials instead of trying to argue with them when you don't have the knowledge to do so, we might have a little more patience with you. As it stands right now though, all you are doing is making yourself a big pain in our collective asses because your understanding of even the basic rules is almost non-existent.

You were given the correct meaning of this particular rule as well as the reasoning behind it. Instead of saying "thank you", instead you insisted on arguing that everybody was wrong.

It ain't a matter of us failing as teachers, chseagle. It's a case of you failing miserably as a student.

Sorry but there it is....like it or not.

[constable]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Finally a constructive "non-condescending" answer/

All I have been doing is mentioning my understanding of rules & yet almost everyone that responds is trying to turn my a$$ into the grand canyon with no rhyme/reason except to exert their manhood where it does not belong.

Like stated a million times before (over-exaggerated) I am wanting to learn the proper meanings/reasonings behind the rules, yet majority of the time instead of politely explaining the proper use/meaning of the rule I am being fed to the wolves for just asking for clarifications.

Sorry to say this but almost everyone on here miserably fails as teachers as cannot calmly explain with rational thinking how/why a rule is written compared to how it is understood.



BillyMac, your soapbox (to me) was only about 1-2 feet off the ground.

Here is an idea.

Give up your cushy lil gig as a timer or scorer or whatever the hell it is you do.

Write the exam, go to the floor training sessions and join your local board/association.

Everyone here would be much more receptive to your goofy questions.

Until then, stop the clock when I blow my whistle and start it when I chop time in.