I think chseagle was my timer tonight

[BktBallRef]

GV Game, middle of the 2nd quarter, horn sounds. I go over and the scorers inform me that #13 is not in either book. I ask for the roster supplied by the visiting coach. There she is, #13 list on the roster. No technical, add her to both books, let's play.

Timer says no, it's a technical foul.

What?

No, it's not a technical foul. The coach supplied a roster with the player listed. This is a scorer's error. Now let's play.

I walk away. Next thing I hear is the timer yelling to the home coach and the fans behind the home bench that it's a technical foul but I don't know the rule and won't call it.

I walk back to the table ask quietly the timer. "Is there a problem?" "Yes, it's a technical foul." I explained it once more and told him that was the end of the discussion. As I walked away again, he yelled, "YES SIR!" at which time I turned and asked where I could find the principal or AD.

I explained the problem and asked him if he had another ECO. He said no but asked if he could talk to him and take care of the problem. He did and we had no further problem.

Some people just don't get it.

[chseagle]

Kinda odd that the player was listed on the roster yet never was listed in either book.This sounds like a HTBT as I would of responded diffrently than that timer.

Question however, since the player was not listed in either book yet the V HC said the scorer was supplied the roster, how could that not be an Administrative T as the name/number have to be added?

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

GV Game, middle of the 2nd quarter, horn sounds. I go over and the scorers inform me that #13 is not in either book. I ask for the roster supplied by the visiting coach. There she is, #13 list on the roster. No technical, add her to both books, let's play.

Timer says no, it's a technical foul.

What?

No, it's not a technical foul. The coach supplied a roster with the player listed. This is a scorer's error. Now let's play.

I walk away. Next thing I hear is the timer yelling to the home coach and the fans behind the home bench that it's a technical foul but I don't know the rule and won't call it.

I walk back to the table ask quietly the timer. "Is there a problem?" "Yes, it's a technical foul." I explained it once more and told him that was the end of the discussion. As I walked away again, he yelled, "YES SIR!" at which time I turned and asked where I could find the principal or AD.

I explained the problem and asked him if he had another ECO. He said no but asked if he could talk to him and take care of the problem. He did and we had no further problem.

Some people just don't get it.

[Welpe]

There's nothing HTBT about this. The timer's job is to flip the switches and keep his mouth shut.

[chseagle]

IOW Had to have been there to see everything unfold in person.

I would never have insisted it was a T, I would of politely asked & after hearing the answer gone on with duties/responsibilities, not turned it into a soap opera like the idiot in the OP did.

Originally Posted by Welpe

There's nothing HTBT about this. The timer's job is to flip the switches and keep his mouth shut.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Kinda odd that the player was listed on the roster yet never was listed in either book.This sounds like a HTBT as I would of responded diffrently than that timer.

Why would you respond at all? It' absolutely none of your concern as the timer.

Question however, since the player was not listed in either book yet the V HC said the scorer was supplied the roster, how could that not be an Administrative T as the name/number have to be added?

Where did I say the V HC said a word?

The visiting team's roster was lying on the table. The visting scorer missed #13 on the roster. The home scorer copied the visitor's book instead of the roster. BOTH scorers were in error, not the V HC. It was a bookkeeping error whcih can be corrected at anytime.

Originally Posted by Welpe

There's nothing HTBT about this. The timer's job is to flip the switches and keep his mouth shut.

+1

[APG]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Kinda odd that the player was listed on the roster yet never was listed in either book.This sounds like a HTBT as I would of responded diffrently than that timer.

Question however, since the player was not listed in either book yet the V HC said the scorer was supplied the roster, how could that not be an Administrative T as the name/number have to be added?

It's not a technical because the official book failed to correctly copy the properly supplied roster. We're not going to penalize a team because the book failed to copy the supplied roster. If we did this, every game would start with a technical because the book "forgot" to copy a number from the visiting team.

[just another ref]

Seriously, he's gotta be putting us on.

[chseagle]

I was asking about the Administrative T as the name had to be added to both scorebooks although it was initially supplied.

Since the name/number was added after the officials checked the rosters in both books, it would be considered an Administrative T.

"Administrative:
Providing rosters; starters; numbers; changes,
additions, etc.; team not ready to start half, TV
monitor, electronic communication; not
occupying assigned bench; more than five
players; excess time-out; violation after team
warning for delay; all players not returning at
same time after time-out or intermission (10-1)"

Just trying to figure out how it would not be considered as such since having to add the player, even though the roster was supplied.

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

It's not a technical because the official book failed to correctly copy the properly supplied roster. We're not going to penalize a team because the book failed to copy the supplied roster. If we did this, every game would start with a technical because the book "forgot" to copy a number from the visiting team.

[APG]

Originally Posted by chseagle

I was asking about the Administrative T as the name had to be added to both scorebooks although it was initially supplied.

Since the name/number was added after the officials checked the rosters in both books, it would be considered an Administrative T.

"Administrative:
Providing rosters; starters; numbers; changes,
additions, etc.; team not ready to start half, TV
monitor, electronic communication; not
occupying assigned bench; more than five
players; excess time-out; violation after team
warning for delay; all players not returning at
same time after time-out or intermission (10-1)"

Just trying to figure out how it would not be considered as such since having to add the player, even though the roster was supplied.

Like was said earlier, this was a book keeping error. All a team is required to do is provide a proper roster by the 10 minute mark. If this is done, then the team has fulfilled its requirement. If we went by how you think the rule is administered, literally every game would start with a technical foul against the visitors or at some point a number would have to be added because the home team "forgot" to add the number.

Now if the book properly copied all the names and numbers from the supplied roster, and THEN there had to be an addition after the 10 minute mark, there would would have an administrative technical foul.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by chseagle

I was asking about the Administrative T as the name had to be added to both scorebooks although it was initially supplied.

.............the roster was supplied.

The penalty is not for adding the name to the book. The penalty is for adding it to the team member list. (roster)


Seriously, you've gotta be putting us on.

[chseagle]

Generally, rosters are copied from one scorebook to another not from a roster supplied by the coach, except for that team's roster either from the coach's memory or a previous game.

As I understood the rules, the rosters are to be in the scorebook(s) by the ten minute mark in order to be supplied, not just a paper lying next to the scorebook for the scorer to copy from.

Just trying to get clarification, as I have seen it called as an administrative T before.

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Like was said earlier, this was a book keeping error. All a team is required to do is provide a proper roster by the 10 minute mark. If this is done, then the team has fulfilled its requirement. If we went by how you think the rule is administered, literally every game would start with a technical foul against the visitors or at some point a number would have to be added because the home team "forgot" to add the number.

Now if the book properly copied all the names and numbers from the supplied roster, and THEN there had to be an addition after the 10 minute mark, there would would have an administrative technical foul.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Generally, rosters are copied from one scorebook to another not from a roster supplied by the coach, except for that team's roster either from the coach's memory or a previous game.

As I understood the rules, the rosters are to be in the scorebook(s) by the ten minute mark in order to be supplied, not just a paper lying next to the scorebook for the scorer to copy from.

Just trying to get clarification, as I have seen it called as an administrative T before.

You've seen a T called when the coach has supplied the list, but the scorer has not yet copied it at the 10 minute mark?

Seriously, he's putting us on.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I walk away. Next thing I hear is the timer yelling to the home coach and the fans behind the home bench that it's a technical foul but I don't know the rule and won't call it.

I probably would have just had the timer replaced at this point - guess I'm a little less tolerant in my old age....

You handled it just fine.

[stiffler3492]

Eagle...You have a gross misunderstanding of this rule. That is all.

[chseagle]

Due to the fact that the roster (player was not listed, though a printed roster was presented with the player listed) was not listed in the official scorebook, as it was on the printed roster, yes it was called.

Concerning the adding of the player into the scorebook, the R (at about 10 minute mark pregame), comes to table & verifies that the number of players warming up for each team match that which is in the scorebook (in the OP somehow V13 was either not counted or not within the visible confines of the court) so there was one more player in uniform than what the scorebook showed. At the time the count was done it should of been noticed about V13 missing from the scorebook, it was not. Since V13 had to be added to the scorebook when coming in to substitute according to the rules it is an administrative T.

10.1.2 SITUATION: (a) Three minutes prior to the start of the game; or (b) during a time-out in the second quarter of play, the Team B coach requests the scorer to add a name to the team list or change a team member’s number in the scorebook.
When is the penalty invoked for this administrative infraction?
RULING: The infraction occurs when the scorer is advised to add to or change the scorebook. The foul must be charged when it occurs and enforced when the ball next becomes live. Once the ball has become live, it is too late to penalize.

Originally Posted by just another ref

You've seen a T called when the coach has supplied the list, but the scorer has not yet copied it at the 10 minute mark?

Seriously, he's putting us on.