Coach was an official

[RookieDude]

Good Coaches Coach...Bad Coaches Referee.

[jTheUmp]

Those who can [referee] do. Those who can't, coach.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by CaRef5

what about an official who used to play and coach?!??!

oh oh and scorekeep too

That would be me. I was working the book and clock at military intramural and base-level games when I was a teen-ager. Sometimes both at the same time. I don't think chseagle would like me giving him pointers while I was officiating a game.

[BillyMac]

I started out as a middle school coach. I was getting sick of questioning officials and not really knowing the rules, which, you could imagine, led to many technical fouls, so I took a new officials class. I passed the test and was invited to join the board. I figured, why not? Back then, teachers, my original profession, weren't getting paid very much. My young family could use the extra cash. I did both for about twenty-five years until the "helicopter parents" finally got to me. No more coaching. I'll never look back.

[chseagle]

So when are we getting together to do a game? I love a challenge.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

That would be me. I was working the book and clock at military intramural and base-level games when I was a teen-ager. Sometimes both at the same time. I don't think chseagle would like me giving him pointers while I was officiating a game.

[TimTaylor]

As Jurassic said, it depends on the individual.

A few years ago we had a game with a coach that was a former official (and not a very good one in the opinion of many). During the game he was periodically sniping about calls and finally late Q2 my partner warned him (stop sign & "that's enough coach").

Early Q3 as I'm transitioning along the sideline table side, he yells at me "If you don't start calling what I'm telling you I'm going to call XXXX(our assignor) personally. I simply stopped, blew my whistle and signaled the "T", asked if he would like the phone number, then stepped out to report the foul. Towards the end of Q3, my partner hit him with his 2nd "T" when he came off the bench and took a step onto the court screaming about something. I think he got tossed 3 or 4 times that season.....

[RobbyinTN]

I coached Middle School girl's basketball for a couple of years. I was a decent coach but not great - had a winning season each year but a lot fo that had to do with the lack of playing good teams . I started officiating after that and found out that while I understood basketball as far as setting plays, coaching, etc., I had LOTS to learn as an official. I now think I am a much better official than I ever was a coach and certainly enjoy it MUCH better.

As far as a coach announcing to me that he used to be an official, I simply tell him that tonight you are coaching and I am officiating. I will let you do your job without me commenting and I would appreciate you giving me the same courtesy.

Robby

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I became a basketball offical because of my H.S. basketball coach.

For those of you who do not know, I graduated from H.S. in 1969. The H.S. I attended was a dominant boys' basketball power in the area from the early 1950's until the early 1970's. The reason was the school's boys basketball head coach (he was also the boys' and girls' golf coach) for the entire time. He and his family were our next door neighbors and his two sons and two daughters and my sister and I grew up together and were and still are best of friends. The three of us boys played basketball and golf and the three girls played golf.

One of the things that few people knew was that during that entire time he was an OhioHSAA registered basketball official from the late 1940's until retired from coaching. In fact he was a charter member (1948) of the Trumbull County Basketball Officials Association in Warren, Ohio, and I have been a member of that association since 1971. He stopped officiating when he started coaching but always attended every TCBOA meeting even though he was coaching.

Did he get any TF's? Yes, he did from time to time. But, one could say that goes with the territory. But all of the TF's I can remember him getting were from kicking the bleacher bench with the heel of his shoe, when he thought an official did not get a call right. I can't remember him getting a TF for yelling at an official. He required players were expected to act as gentlemen on the court at all times. A player would get yanked from the game if he looked at an official the wrong way. If a player received a TF, he could expect to sit for at least a full quarter. And when I played the OhioHSAA did not have the current penalties for ejections that it now has, but if a player was ejected he didn't play the next game. He ran a tight ship.

He told us that the best officials were assigned to our games by the league and he would not tolerate disrespectful unsportsmanlike conduct toward officials and opponents. He also told us that an official never lost or one a game for a team because he never saw an official miss a layup or a free throw or a jump shot for that matter, nor commit a foul or a violation, nor throw the ball away.

When asked why he was a basketball official, his answer was: "If you do not know the rules of the game, then how can you teach the game or play the game."

That statement has always rung true because at least twice a season, a full hour of practice would be devoted to guarding and screening (what everybody refers to block/charge). This practice was a combined practice for the FR, JV, and VAR teams. If one were observing the practice from the stands, one would have thought that he was watching a basketball officials camp teach how to officiate block/charge. Every part of the guarding and screening rules were taught. So I can honestly say that the guarding and screening rules have not changed in over 45 years.

When I graduated from H.S. many thought that I would be the most likely of all his players to become a coach, but I chose a career in engineering and became a basketball official instead.

MTD, Sr.

[26 Year Gap]

Nice story MTD.

My game on Tuesday that had no bonus FTs the whole game, had the V coach who was a former official. His players were very respectful. Never heard anything from him other than time out requests. The H coach, who I had in a game last year, was also very respectful. Last year, I had teed up two of his players in the first half. He asked the cause, and said he would take care of things. The second half, he seemed to have a different team out there. They played basketball, staged a comeback and won the game.

btw My partner told me about the V coach being a former official. He never mentioned it.

[Raymond]

^^^MTD

Was Ernie Shavers around when you grew up?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

For those of you who do not know, I graduated from H.S. in 1969. .....MTD, Sr.

OK - now it's official. I'm older than you (probably). I graduated from college in 1969, although I was only 20. I graduated HS in '65 (1965, not 1865) when I was 16. I was the youngest in a graduating class of 712. I started HS when I was 12.

BTW, MTD - who are the most notable graduates (in the world of sport) from your HS (any year). Mine would be Jerry Colangelo and Jim Bouton.

[jeschmit]

In my area, we have a men's D-1 official who is considered an assistant coach on one of the HS teams because his son is on the team. I've been officiating this team for two years now and I just now found out who he actually was. He's never said a word to the officials unless it's something good about how they handled a particular situation on the court. I've heard that he's good about putting an idea into the coach's head about what to ask the officials about during a game though...

[Terrance "TJ"]

If I had coached (which was a plan a few years back), my players would have been instructed towards being respectful towards the officials. I grew up with my dad being a football ref. My first season competing in any sport, I was taught to not disrespect the refs. Since I didn't go on to become a coach, I naturally went to ref'ing. I absolutely love the game of basketball and, as stated above, grew up with a ref as a dad.

Now, I'll echo those saying this, it all depends on that one individual. They can be good at both, one or the other, or neither. My association has a football coach, a school's AD, a volleyball coach (our president), a track coach, and several teachers that officiate. All are respected and experienced in officiating.

[26 Year Gap]

What I have found is that if the coach is respectful, most, if not all of the players are respectful. If the coach is a whiner, the players for the most part are whiners. If the coach is a belligerent, then some of the players are as well. And some are still at the whiny stage.

My game tonight features a coach in the middle category. I have never seen the other coach. I will tell you that the coach never is quoted in the paper whining about calls. His players played hard. His players didn't execute, but would improve in those areas with time. His players did not convert free throws. The other team made some plays.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

^^^MTD

Was Ernie Shavers around when you grew up?

Yes. He played grew up in Leavittsburg Township near Warren, Ohio. He played football for Leavittsburg H.S., graduating from there in 1963, I think. Leavittsburg H.S. (now LaBrae H.S., Leavttsburg Local School Dist. and Braceville (Braceville H.S.) Local School Dist. merged after I graduated from H.S.) and now LaBrea H.S. are still in the same league my H.S. is in.

I met him just once at the annual Youngstown Italian-American Banquet in 1978. When he made a fist, it was like having a brick on the end of his arm. There was a reason that Ali and Foreman said he was the hardest hitting heavyweight they had ever fought and it was those bricks on the end of his arms. LOL

MTD, Sr.