Official and Coach Charged

[stmaryrams]

Umpire, coach charged over baseball fight
From WKYC-TV 3 reports
July 11, 2005

HUDSON – Police will charge both the coach and umpire involved in a fight at a baseball tournament two weekends ago.

An argument between umpire Howard Claflin, 57 of Cuyahoga Falls and coach Robert Wiley of Broadview Heights led to a fight. Claflin suffered cuts and broke a hand.

Hudson Police will file disorderly conduct charges against both men.

The charge carries a maximum fine of $250 and 30 days in jail.

I actually saw the umpire on the news following the event. He had a black eye and a splint on his hand. Most of this occured after a player was ejected. The coach came in and started the argument following the ejection.

[officialtony]

If it is as you stated, that the coach came in and started the altercation, how does an umpire get charged also?
Are we to allow someone to come in and pummel us without fighting back so we are not in the wrong?
Lord help us.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by officialtony
If it is as you stated, that the coach came in and started the altercation, how does an umpire get charged also?
Are we to allow someone to come in and pummel us without fighting back so we are not in the wrong?
Lord help us.

Just remember, Tony, we don't have all of the information that the police have.

Also, police will often charge everyone and let the DA (or, in some cases, the jury) decide who did what. If the umpire fought back, but his involvement was not in self-defense then, yes, "fighting back" was "in the wrong."

[Tim C]

Failing to FIGHT BACK is never wrong.

Mark, you are caught up in the feel good times.

I will encourage my umpires to fight back no matter what happens. Give back exactly what is given. Meet force with force.

I am not a coward . . . and I will always fight back.

Don't lead us into cowardice.

[DG]

Originally posted by Tim C
Failing to FIGHT BACK is never wrong.

Mark, you are caught up in the feel good times.

I will encourage my umpires to fight back no matter what happens. Give back exactly what is given. Meet force with force.

I am not a coward . . . and I will always fight back.

Don't lead us into cowardice.

Failing to FIGHT BACK is always wrong.

[mrm21711]

I am from the Cleveland area and know about the story, but do not work in his association. They are in the Akron area.

Apparently, the umpire had a "fight or flight" moment and grabbed the collar of the coach before anything else happened. Not saying I agree he should have got his *** kicked, but thats the entire story.

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/4687573/detail.html

See the sixth paragraph.

[dudeinblue]

ooh, I'd be scared of big bad Tim C. Watch out for him coaches! Other umpires and coaches should be on the scene so quick that there shouldn't even have to be a fight

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by dudeinblue
ooh, I'd be scared of big bad Tim C. Watch out for him coaches! Other umpires and coaches should be on the scene so quick that there shouldn't even have to be a fight

I think that big bad Tim C might be more scared if he had you for a partner.

Kinda missing the obvious aren't you? In this particular case, the other umpires and coaches weren't on the scene to stop the fight. Try sticking to what actually happened.

Now, what is your recommendation if something like this happens and you are involved? What would you do?

[dudeinblue]

How do you know they weren't on the scene? It was during the middle of a game so obviously they were. Try sticking to the story. But, you do have a point, because if I placed myself in his shoes, I would definately fight back after being attacked

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by dudeinblue
But, you do have a point, because if I placed myself in his shoes, I would definately fight back after being attacked

Actually that was exactly Big Bad Tim's(tm) point way back.

So.......your point before was?

[cowbyfan1]

I'm still wondering where his partner was. It was fans from the other team that stopped the guy.
I agree with Tee andthe others, I would not hesitate to defend myself but it will be obious that the other person will make the first move. The ump in this case "felt threatened" but he also really made the first physical move by grabbing the coaches collar. I have a feeling the DA will hold that against him, even if he tried to walk away at first.

[LMan]

hmmmm...now where was that old "packing?" thread from a couple of months ago.....

[Lawrence_Dorsey]

Charging both parties seems like a DA's way to cover his rear end and let someone else handle the problem. In other words, if these cases go to court a judge or jury will have to decide if one or both parties is at fault. The DA can say he pressed charges against each guy but the jury decided who was at fault.

Maybe the umpire grabbed the guy by the collar. I can only imagine he did as he was being charged. However, it's doubtful that the umpire was the aggessor given the coach hasn't reported any injuries and the umpire has a black eye and a broken hand. I'm sticking with the umpire here.

Lawrence

[mcrowder]

Seems I remember reading the actual story on this either in another thread or on another site... if memory serves, the umpire charged with the assault was not the umpire involved in the argument initially, and during the argument between a different umpire and coach, this umpire grabbed the coach by the neck and threw him down... and then proceeded to get his *** kicked.

I confess that I may not be remembering perfectly, but I do remember when reading the story the first time if the umpire would be charged, as it sounded like he was the instigator.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Tim C

Mark, you are caught up in the feel good times.

'Tain't me, it's what the law says.