Goaltending???

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

What about this part of the OP?



Reads to me that B44 slapped the other side of the backboard with no attempt to block a shot involved. That's a T, NCAA and Fed.

Slapping the backboard is not in and of itself a T. You can in Fed slap the backboard so long as there is no try in flight and the ball is not touching the backboard or in the basket or the cylinder and the slap is not done in an unsporting manner.

There's an area between an attempted block and unsporting behavior that is allowable backboard slapping.

It's sounds like the OP was an unsporting incident though.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I don't have my FED books handy, but I don't think that's the correct parsing of the rule (iirc, it's one of those rules with multiple "or" clauses and it could be unclear to which the "while" clause applies).

You think correctly. You can call a backboard slap at any time if you think the act was unsporting.

From POE #4 on backboard slapping from the 2008-09 FED rule book....
"The rules specify that intentionally slapping or striking the backboard is a technical. The spirit and intent of the rule is to penalize a player for drawing attention to themselves or as a means of venting frustration."

Iow it's a judgment call...and the slap in the OP also has to be a judgment call.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You think correctly. You can call a backboard slap at any time if you think the act was unsporting.

From POE #4 on backboard slapping from the 2008-09 FED rule book....
"The rules specify that intentionally slapping or striking the backboard is a technical. The spirit and intent of the rule is to penalize a player for drawing attention to themselves or as a means of venting frustration."

Iow it's a judgment call...and the slap in the OP also has to be a judgment call.

While that is true, you aren't calling the T based on rule 10-3-4 as it doesn't deal with unsporting acts, you're calling it based on 10-3-6.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

B44's smack of the backboard is not a technical foul as there is no try in flight (10-3-4b).

And I was simply commenting on Bob's response to the above statement. Whether the try was in flight or not doesn't mean that a "T" still couldn't have been called against B44.... as Tref also correctly pointed out to you.

You judge the act, no matter whether that act was inside or outside the course of play. That's exactly what the FED told us to do in that POE that I cited.

Maybe you didn't intend it as such, but the sentence above leaves the impression that you can't call a "T" by rule for slapping the backboard while no try is in flight. You can but it is always a judgment call.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And I was simply commenting on Bob's response to the above statement. Whether the try was in flight or not doesn't mean that a "T" still couldn't have been called against B44.... as Tref also correctly pointed out to you.

You judge the act, no matter whether that act was inside or outside the course of play. That's exactly what the FED told us to do in that POE that I cited.

Maybe you didn't intend it as such, but the sentence above leaves the impression that you can't call a "T" by rule for slapping the backboard while no try is in flight. You can but it is always a judgment call.

Yeah, communication error on my part. My point was that it had to be unsporting to call the T, a "basic" slap in this situation is not a T.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Yeah, communication error on my part. My point was that it had to be unsporting to call the T, a "basic" slap in this situation is not a T.

What do you mean by a "basic" slap as it applies to the OP?

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

What do you mean by a "basic" slap as it applies to the OP?

Basic as opposed to unsporting. It wasn't immediately clear to me that the official felt the slap was itself unsporting as opposed to slaps being inherently unsporting.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Basic as opposed to unsporting. It wasn't immediately clear to me that the official felt the slap was itself unsporting as opposed to slaps being inherently unsporting.

It was clear what the official felt in the OP:

...Blue 44 smacks the backboard, unrelated to the shot. He said 'C' blew his whistle after Blue 44 smacked the backboard and gave him a technical foul...

Obviously he felt if wasn't a "basic" slap.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

It was clear what the official felt in the OP:



Obviously he felt if wasn't a "basic" slap.

No, it's not obvious at all. There are multiple ways to receive a T for slapping the backboard. The fact that he called a T does not tell us which rule he based his decision on.

Since they had not yet called goaltending, he could have felt the try was in flight and therefore penalized a basic slap.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

No, it's not obvious at all. There are multiple ways to receive a T for slapping the backboard. The fact that he called a T does not tell us which rule he based his decision on.

Since they had not yet called goaltending, he could have felt the try was in flight and therefore penalized a basic slap.

What does the ball in flight have to do with a "basic slap" of the backboard? So if the ball is in flight you can't "basically" slap the backboard but if the ball isn't in flight it's alright to "basically slap the backboard? When did that become the criteria?

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

What does the ball in flight have to do with a "basic slap" of the backboard? So if the ball is in flight you can't "basically" slap the backboard but if the ball isn't in flight it's alright to "basically slap the backboard? When did that become the criteria?

You have the hang of it now.

10-3-4
A player shall not illegally contact the backboard/ring by:

a. Placing a hand on the backboard or ring to gain an advantage.

b. Intentionally slapping or striking the backboard or causing the ring to vibrate while a try or tap is in flight or is touching the backboard or is in the basket or in the cylinder above the basket.

As long as you haven't violated 10-3-4b and you aren't being unsporting by "draw[ing] attention to [yourself] or [as] a means of venting frustration" (10.3.4 Comment), you haven't committed a technical foul.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

You have the hang of it now.



As long as you haven't violated 10-3-4b and you aren't being unsporting by "draw[ing] attention to [yourself] or [as] a means of venting frustration" (10.3.4 Comment), you haven't committed a technical foul.

And how is the rule worded for the unsporting portion of this discussion?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

It is but the other clauses aren't relevant here.

Parse it this way:

b. (1)Intentionally slapping or striking the backboard or
(2)causing the ring to vibrate while a try or tap is in flight or is touching the backboard or is in the basket or in the cylinder above the basket.

IOW, it's only the "causing the ring to vibrate" part that deals with a try in flight or touching the backborad, ...

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Parse it this way:

b. (1)Intentionally slapping or striking the backboard or
(2)causing the ring to vibrate while a try or tap is in flight or is touching the backboard or is in the basket or in the cylinder above the basket.

IOW, it's only the "causing the ring to vibrate" part that deals with a try in flight or touching the backborad, ...

It can be read that way, but then the comment from 10.3.4 doesn't make any sense as there would never be a need to use 10-3-6 for the T.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Parse it this way:

b. (1)Intentionally slapping or striking the backboard or
(2)causing the ring to vibrate while a try or tap is in flight or is touching the backboard or is in the basket or in the cylinder above the basket.

IOW, it's only the "causing the ring to vibrate" part that deals with a try in flight or touching the backborad, ...

That's the way I've always interpreted.

But I do want to know the wording for the "unsporting" act East is referring to. I still have 90 minutes before I can get to my books.