Goaltending???

[Eastshire]

I'll take a crack at this from a Fed perspective.

The attempted block by B22 does not end the try (4-41-4). B35's block is goaltending (4-22). Based on the description (blocked), I assume the ball had no further possibility of entering the basket ending the try.

B44's smack of the backboard is not a technical foul as there is no try in flight (10-3-4b).

The officials should have gotten together during the dead ball and determined that the goaltending had caused the try to end and awarded the points under the principle that the violation had occurred before the foul (indeed caused the activity to no longer be a foul).

As long as there wasn't a significant delay (more than a couple of seconds) between the goaltending and the whistle, I wouldn't consider this correcting an error.

If the T is actually for unsporting behavior rather than slapping the backboard, I again think the proximity of the stoppage to the violation allows the officials to make the call after conferencing as I don't believe the time has expired to call the violation yet. (Thus it is not yet an error.)

[jritchie]

good call on the goaltending and on the unsporting T for slapping the backboard. I'm sure there wasn't more than a second elasped when the goaltending was missed, maybe just a slow whistle!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

B44's smack of the backboard is not a technical foul as there is no try in flight (10-3-4b).

I don't have my FED books handy, but I don't think that's the correct parsing of the rule (iirc, it's one of those rules with multiple "or" clauses and it could be unclear to which the "while" clause applies).

[iref4him]

Thanks for your input!! The crew was fortunate that the 'C' blew his whistle for the smack of the backboard!! If not, the game would have continued without a goaltending or a 'T'. IF Blue 44 did not slap the backboard, the crew would have missed the goaltend. The 'C' did not blow his whistle for goaltending, just for the smacking of the backboard.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by iref4him

Thanks for your input!! The crew was fortunate that the 'C' blew his whistle for the smack of the backboard!! If not, the game would have continued without a goaltending or a 'T'. IF Blue 44 did not slap the backboard, the crew would have missed the goaltend. The 'C' did not blow his whistle for goaltending, just for the smacking of the backboard.

As I thought...did the Blue coach make a stink about the delayed GT call?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I don't have my FED books handy, but I don't think that's the correct parsing of the rule (iirc, it's one of those rules with multiple "or" clauses and it could be unclear to which the "while" clause applies).

You think correctly. You can call a backboard slap at any time if you think the act was unsporting.

From POE #4 on backboard slapping from the 2008-09 FED rule book....
"The rules specify that intentionally slapping or striking the backboard is a technical. The spirit and intent of the rule is to penalize a player for drawing attention to themselves or as a means of venting frustration."

Iow it's a judgment call...and the slap in the OP also has to be a judgment call.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You think correctly. You can call a backboard slap at any time if you think the act was unsporting.

From POE #4 on backboard slapping from the 2008-09 FED rule book....
"The rules specify that intentionally slapping or striking the backboard is a technical. The spirit and intent of the rule is to penalize a player for drawing attention to themselves or as a means of venting frustration."

Iow it's a judgment call...and the slap in the OP also has to be a judgment call.

While that is true, you aren't calling the T based on rule 10-3-4 as it doesn't deal with unsporting acts, you're calling it based on 10-3-6.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

B44's smack of the backboard is not a technical foul as there is no try in flight (10-3-4b).

And I was simply commenting on Bob's response to the above statement. Whether the try was in flight or not doesn't mean that a "T" still couldn't have been called against B44.... as Tref also correctly pointed out to you.

You judge the act, no matter whether that act was inside or outside the course of play. That's exactly what the FED told us to do in that POE that I cited.

Maybe you didn't intend it as such, but the sentence above leaves the impression that you can't call a "T" by rule for slapping the backboard while no try is in flight. You can but it is always a judgment call.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And I was simply commenting on Bob's response to the above statement. Whether the try was in flight or not doesn't mean that a "T" still couldn't have been called against B44.... as Tref also correctly pointed out to you.

You judge the act, no matter whether that act was inside or outside the course of play. That's exactly what the FED told us to do in that POE that I cited.

Maybe you didn't intend it as such, but the sentence above leaves the impression that you can't call a "T" by rule for slapping the backboard while no try is in flight. You can but it is always a judgment call.

Yeah, communication error on my part. My point was that it had to be unsporting to call the T, a "basic" slap in this situation is not a T.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Yeah, communication error on my part. My point was that it had to be unsporting to call the T, a "basic" slap in this situation is not a T.

What do you mean by a "basic" slap as it applies to the OP?

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

What do you mean by a "basic" slap as it applies to the OP?

Basic as opposed to unsporting. It wasn't immediately clear to me that the official felt the slap was itself unsporting as opposed to slaps being inherently unsporting.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Basic as opposed to unsporting. It wasn't immediately clear to me that the official felt the slap was itself unsporting as opposed to slaps being inherently unsporting.

It was clear what the official felt in the OP:

...Blue 44 smacks the backboard, unrelated to the shot. He said 'C' blew his whistle after Blue 44 smacked the backboard and gave him a technical foul...

Obviously he felt if wasn't a "basic" slap.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

It was clear what the official felt in the OP:



Obviously he felt if wasn't a "basic" slap.

No, it's not obvious at all. There are multiple ways to receive a T for slapping the backboard. The fact that he called a T does not tell us which rule he based his decision on.

Since they had not yet called goaltending, he could have felt the try was in flight and therefore penalized a basic slap.