Bench Technical or not

[chseagle]

In one of the situations I'm talking about, the AC is just basically a bench warmer except during timeouts as the team uses either lower level players as statisticians or other willing individuals.

For example: at my alma mater all the coaches on game day wear polos with the school name on them whereas the manager(s) are normally in regular street clothes with nothing identifying the school. The AC in question is the JV Coach & has one of those "higher than thou" attitudes were he thinks he's better than everyone else & is above the rules.

Yes I do realize everyone may have a varying view to the wording of both the rule & the case. As I am reading it, like stated above, not one of the coaches is supposed to be approaching the table at all unless they stay inside their coaching box (the HC only) and discuss game strategy with a player coming in to sub. If they want to know information, such as fouls, they can ask the scorer during dead ball periods from the coaches box.

Both my wife & I are thinking of doing it one step better & mentioning it to the HC since we're on good relations with him.

It's my understanding that during a Varsity Contest, the only coach that should be doing any communications/interactions with the game officials is the HC.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Who's to say the AC isn't the statistician? Frankly, most times I couldn't tell the difference between the manager and an AC, as I see only three sorts of people on the bench.

1. HC
2. Players
3. Everyone else

If he's actually bothering you, it's different. Address it with the officials during a timeout or intermission; but if he's just checking with his scorer for statistical information, I'd let it go.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by chseagle

It's my understanding that during a Varsity Contest, the only coach that should be doing any communications/interactions with the game officials is the HC.

Yeah, that's in the book -- as a tool to cool down situations that are getting confrontational. Around here if you tried to enforce that routinely you'd be considered a total pr!ck and lose games.

[bob jenkins]

It's one of those "spirit of the rules" vs. "letter of the rules" issues. IMO, it's there so that IF there's a problem, it can be dealt with. If there's no problem, then ignore it.

Other phrases that apply:
1) Don't be a plumber
2) Officiate with the book, not by the book
3) Officiate the game; manage situations

[Mregor]

Originally Posted by chseagle

It's my understanding that during a Varsity Contest, the only coach that should be doing any communications/interactions with the game officials is the HC.

Originally Posted by mbyron

Yeah, that's in the book -- as a tool to cool down situations that are getting confrontational. Around here if you tried to enforce that routinely you'd be considered a total pr!ck and lose games.

Really? In all locations I've been in, that's been pretty much the standard in all of them. AC's are to be seen and not heard. A quick, "coach, your AC is about to buy you a seat" is normally all that's necessary to quiet them down. Is this normal for other areas to address HC and assistants as well?

Roger

[APG]

Originally Posted by Mregor

Really? In all locations I've been in, that's been pretty much the standard in all of them. AC's are to be seen and not heard. A quick, "coach, your AC is about to buy you a seat" is normally all that's necessary to quiet them down. Is this normal for other areas to address HC and assistants as well?

Roger

I won't speak for mbyron, but for me, if an assistant coach, during say a timeout, wants to ask me an appropriate question and he/she does so in a professional way, I'm not going to tell him/her I won't ask because they aren't the head coach. I do the same thing when interacting with a player that isn't a captain. The first time I have a problem with the assistant, the head coach will hear about it.

That's at least what I got out of that statement.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

I won't speak for mbyron, but for me, if an assistant coach, during say a timeout, wants to ask me an appropriate question and he/she does so in a professional way, I'm not going to tell him/her I won't ask because they aren't the head coach. I do the same thing when interacting with a player that isn't a captain. The first time I have a problem with the assistant, the head coach will hear about it.

That's at least what I got out of that statement.

How you handle an assistant is up to you IMO. A lot of officials do not want to deal with assistance and I understand why. Often they think they need to ask a question every time something happens and that gets annoying. But to be real the rules gives certain responsibilities to the head coach or by rule "coach." It is up to you how you want to deal with them. No right or wrong either way from my point of view.

Peace

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

I won't speak for mbyron, but for me, if an assistant coach, during say a timeout, wants to ask me an appropriate question and he/she does so in a professional way, I'm not going to tell him/her I won't ask because they aren't the head coach. I do the same thing when interacting with a player that isn't a captain. The first time I have a problem with the assistant, the head coach will hear about it.

That's at least what I got out of that statement.

Yup, that's it. A total unwillingness to speak to AC's under any circumstances comes across badly. First sign of a problem, though, and we'll talk only to HC.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

In one of the situations I'm talking about, the AC is just basically a bench warmer except during timeouts as the team uses either lower level players as statisticians or other willing individuals.

For example: at my alma mater all the coaches on game day wear polos with the school name on them whereas the manager(s) are normally in regular street clothes with nothing identifying the school. The AC in question is the JV Coach & has one of those "higher than thou" attitudes were he thinks he's better than everyone else & is above the rules.

Yes I do realize everyone may have a varying view to the wording of both the rule & the case. As I am reading it, like stated above, not one of the coaches is supposed to be approaching the table at all unless they stay inside their coaching box (the HC only) and discuss game strategy with a player coming in to sub. If they want to know information, such as fouls, they can ask the scorer during dead ball periods from the coaches box.

Both my wife & I are thinking of doing it one step better & mentioning it to the HC since we're on good relations with him.

It's my understanding that during a Varsity Contest, the only coach that should be doing any communications/interactions with the game officials is the HC.

1. You're right, the coaches are not supposed to approach the table.
2. Unless it's a high profile AC or the HC, if I see someone approach the table during a TO or intermission, I'm assuming it's a statistician or manager (neither term is defined in the rule book as far as I remember).
3. If they're truly interfering with the table operations, it needs to be addressed: by talking to one of the officials on the floor.
4. If he's merely asking for fouls, let it go.
5. If he's making regular trips, I'd question how good a statistician he is; he should be keeping track of that himself and maybe need to verify a couple times per game.

I have to ask, what is he doing when he gets there? How is he interfering?

[SCalScoreKeeper]

When not doing the scorebook for both varsity teams I do the stats for our JV Girls team. I track the fouls on my stat sheet.Plus all of the scorers (mostly adults for Varsity and students for JV) here have the knowledge beforehand to tell a coach when a kid has 2,3,4,and 5 fouls (disqualification) making such a practice unecessary.

[chseagle]

From what I've noticed during the Varsity games is that when the AC comes over to the table, he's doing it by himself, without the HC asking him to, then relaying what he's seen to the HC. Majority of the time he does it is during live ball situations.

Like I stated in an earlier post, the way the coaching/statistician is setup, the ACs are extra bench personnel there as bench warmers (except during timeouts), as advisers to the HC. The statisticians are students/lower level players that sit behind the team bench with a computer/clipboard.

Both my wife & I are going to contact the HC & mention to him what we have learned & that it is a hinderance to the table that the AC is coming over looking at information that the statisticians are keeping track of.

The HC, throughout the game, when there is a lull in the action asks the Scorer about the player fouls by staying within the coaching box, so really there is no need for the AC to leave to the bench area to obtain information that the HC has asked for.

Generally the scorer is in constant communication with the HC concerning the fouls, that there are times the HC does not even need to ask.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

From what I've noticed during the Varsity games is that when the AC comes over to the table, he's doing it by himself, without the HC asking him to, then relaying what he's seen to the HC. Majority of the time he does it is during live ball situations.

That's a problem if he's doing it while the ball is in play. One warning, that's it.

Originally Posted by chseagle

Like I stated in an earlier post, the way the coaching/statistician is setup, the ACs are extra bench personnel there as bench warmers (except during timeouts), as advisers to the HC. The statisticians are students/lower level players that sit behind the team bench with a computer/clipboard.

I know, my point is that as an official, I neither know nor care to know how each school structures their team. I've seen coaches "look" younger than some of the players, so I wouldn't think twice about whether a person looks like a coach or a student or a manager or a statastician.

Originally Posted by chseagle

The HC, throughout the game, when there is a lull in the action asks the Scorer about the player fouls by staying within the coaching box, so really there is no need for the AC to leave to the bench area to obtain information that the HC has asked for.

Generally the scorer is in constant communication with the HC concerning the fouls, that there are times the HC does not even need to ask.

This is how I normally see it done. I expect your head coach will thank you and proceed to do things as he always has.

I will add this; there's nothing in the rules that prevents an AC from being the statistician/manager.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I will add this; there's nothing in the rules that prevents an AC from being the statistician/manager.

I know there's nothing in the rules that prevents an AC from being a statistician or manager.

However, if there are students or others acting in the capacity of statistician &/or manager, besides a member of the coaching staff, does that not mean that the AC is disqualified to approach the table?

I know when I was the Boys' Manager, I was given all the duties of the manager during games & the ACs were just there to assist the HC with calling plays. However when I was manager, never was I asked to approach the table as the HC was in constant communication with the table or if his attention was elsewhere one of the ACs would relay the information to him from the table via audio communication from the table.

Of course each school/team does things a bit differently, as well as the views of each floor official is different, as I learned last night.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

I know there's nothing in the rules that prevents an AC from being a statistician or manager.

However, if there are students or others acting in the capacity of statistician &/or manager, besides a member of the coaching staff, does that not mean that the AC is disqualified to approach the table?

Nowhere in the rules is the statistician or manager defined; this means, in my game, anyone inquiring about stats is a statistician (except the HC). Also, nowhere in the rules does it say only one person can hold the position.

Again, asking about stats is one thing. Hovering over the table is another.

Doing it during a timeout or intermission is one thing; doing it during live play is another.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Both my wife & I are going to contact the HC & mention to him what we have learned & that it is a hinderance to the table that the AC is coming over looking at information that the statisticians are keeping track of.

Go for it. Tell him you're both just not gonna stand for it any longer.

Please be sure to report back on how he took the news.

Btw, does the little woman also have her own taser? If not, Christmas is coming. Just saying......

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Go for it. Tell him you're both just not gonna stand for it any longer.

Please be sure to report back on how he took the news.

Btw, does the little woman also have her own taser? If not, Christmas is coming. Just saying......

LMAO My wife is not such a stickler for rules/regulations like I am. However I am working on lowering my threshold of being so stringent.