Video review question on block charge

[Adam]

It's not a hard and fast rule that torso contact = a charge. Do you have the exact wording?

[Adam]

ok, just watched the video. I would defer to the official on the floor with position. He can see that opposite-side leg better than we can; and whether the knee is sticking out into the shooter's path. Really hard to tell from our angle, however.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jay R

This is a tough call as the contact is sort of glancing rather than directly on the torso. The defender seems to be falling down before the contact occurs. In that situation I often go with a block call.

In that situation, I'm inclined towards a no-call.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by snaqwells

it's not a hard and fast rule that torso contact = a charge.

+1

[GoodwillRef]

First of all, the video using the word "Flex" makes me chuckle. Second, I think this is a mechanics issues...we don't make calls in rotation for this exact reason. The center offical has a great look at this drive and play. I would like the lead to stop in the paint when the drive from the "C" side starts.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Remember that one time,

At band camp?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by drofficial

I guess we are not looking at the same clip. I suppose one could somehow argue that it's a block, but certainly not because a leg was extended into the path of the offensive player. This is clealy a shoulder right into the torso.

Why are you asking for opinions if every time someone disagrees with you you tell them they are wrong? Folks have given you reasons why they would call it a certain way and every time you dispute them. What are you trying to accomplish?


BTW, I can't see the clip right now so I don't have an opinion.

[Texas Aggie]

I would defer to the official on the floor with position.

+1. There's nothing on the video that indicates he got it wrong. He's got a better angle than the video does and it appears to be a charge even from the video.

There are too many officials that put way too big a burden on the defense. I see too many charges called blocks at all levels. One other problem I see a lot of is when the defender has LGP, it is assumed its always a charge if there is contact. NO. Don't call a foul unless the player was actually fouled. As silly as that sounds, it seems too many feel they must make a call when a no-call is the appropriate one. If the dribbler tries to go around a LGP defender, doesn't make it, there's contact but the defender wasn't displaced, you should probably pass on the call.

[Texas Aggie]

Why are you asking for opinions if every time someone disagrees with you you tell them they are wrong?

Perhaps because its called a message board! Where educational discussion takes place! And there is such things as right and wrong (or correct an incorrect) in basketball officiating! None of which is inconsistent about opening a topic for discussion and then favoring one view or another.

I'm always amazed at how sensitive officials can be in a forum. If he's wrong, call him on it and prove your point.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Perhaps because its called a message board! Where educational discussion takes place! And there is such things as right and wrong (or correct an incorrect) in basketball officiating! None of which is inconsistent about opening a topic for discussion and then favoring one view or another.

I'm always amazed at how sensitive officials can be in a forum. If he's wrong, call him on it and prove your point.

Because he has already made up his mind and doen't really want to hear anything opposite to it. Kind of like my ex-wife every time she asked for my opinion on something. She really didn't want my opinion, she just wanted validation.

So drofficial gets the same response my ex' started getting: "Why the hell are you asking me if don't want to hear my opinion. Do what you want and leave me the F' alone about it"

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Because he has already made up his mind and doen't really want to hear anything opposite to it. Kind of like my ex-wife every time she asked for my opinion on something. She really didn't want my opinion, she just wanted validation.

So drofficial gets the same response my ex' started getting: "Why the hell are you asking me if don't want to hear my opinion. Do what you want and leave me the F' alone about it"

So, how do you know drofficial isn't your ex-wife?

[drofficial]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

+1. There's nothing on the video that indicates he got it wrong. He's got a better angle than the video does and it appears to be a charge even from the video.

There are too many officials that put way too big a burden on the defense. I see too many charges called blocks at all levels. One other problem I see a lot of is when the defender has LGP, it is assumed its always a charge if there is contact. NO. Don't call a foul unless the player was actually fouled. As silly as that sounds, it seems too many feel they must make a call when a no-call is the appropriate one. If the dribbler tries to go around a LGP defender, doesn't make it, there's contact but the defender wasn't displaced, you should probably pass on the call.

I could not agree more. The official in the clip called it a block. But it appears to be a charge even from the video angle. Thus the call is incorrect imo.

But in response to what I am trying to accomplish, the answer is what Texas Aggies says: Way too many charges are called blocks. What in the world could the defense have done better on this play. He sprinted to get between the dribbler and the goal, established LGP, maintained his position, and was run-over (thru the torso) by the offensive player. How is that not a charge?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by drofficial

I could not agree more. The official in the clip called it a block. But it appears to be a charge even from the video angle. Thus the call is incorrect imo.

But in response to what I am trying to accomplish, the answer is what Texas Aggies says: Way too many charges are called blocks. What in the world could the defense have done better on this play. He sprinted to get between the dribbler and the goal, established LGP, maintained his position, and was run-over (thru the torso) by the offensive player. How is that not a charge?

We've already told you: the defender's right leg is out of view, and it looks to me as if the offensive player has redirected to the defender's right.
Honestly, after viewing it again, I'll say I would no-call this play from the angle we have. The defender appears to me to be falling on his own rather than as a result of contact.

You imply with "even from the video angle" that the video angle is a better angle than the official has on the floor. I disagree, as the official has a great view of the defender's positioning and stance.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

So, how do you know drofficial isn't your ex-wife?

I wish that were the case. Then maybe I could cut back on some child support.

[Bishopcolle]

Originally Posted by drofficial

I am reviewing the state's video for the mandatory state clinic. Good stuff. But take a look at play 4 beginning at the 1:34 mark of the top video at the the link below. The play is use to demonstate good transition coverage. But even though the official may have hustled, he gets the call wrong. It's clearly a charge, right? The defender has established a legal guarding position between the offense and the goal and the offensive player puts his shoulder right into the defense's torse. A clear charge. Want to make sure everyone else agrees. Kind of an odd clip to use in a training video in my opnion...

Basketball Clinics Video

Watch the lead official. He called it a charge and sent it the other way. What's your beef? He called it your way!