Block Charge Question

[sseltser]

My association now requires its newer officials to complete an online training course through the American Sport Education Program (asep.com). This question was part of the course and I'd like to hear your thoughts:

A post player runs toward the basket for a pass from the guard. A defender steps into position and plants both feet right in the post player's path, a few steps away. The post player catches the ball and then immediately slams into the defender. What call should the lead official make?

a. incindental contact; no foul
b. charging foul
c. blocking foul
d. intentional blocking foul charging foul

How would you answer this question?

[eyezen]

The correct answer is B but what in the world is D????

[Nevadaref]

I would answer it by following the ruling provided in the case book.

10.6.11 SITUATION C: A defensive player takes a position in front of the post player A1 to prevent A1 from receiving the ball. A high pass is made over the head and out of reach of the defensive player. The post player A1 moves toward the basket to catch the pass and try for goal. As the pass is made, a teammate of the defensive player moves into the path of A1, in a guarding position. What are the rights of the pivot player A1 and the defensive player who moves into A1's path? RULING: The defensive player has switched to guard a player who does not have the ball. Therefore, the switching player must assume a position one or two strides in advance of the post player (depending upon the speed of movement of such player) to make the action legal. If the defensive player moves into the path of the post player A1 after A1 has control of the ball (provided the post player is not in the air at the time), the play becomes a guarding situation on a player with the ball and no distance or time limit is involved.

[sseltser]

The answer given is a blocking foul. I disagreed because it said the defender plants both feet a few steps away. Even if the post player didn't have the ball, a few steps is enough space to avoid contact.

Also sorry for the double post (its actually not a double post because I misspelled 'hear' as 'here' and thought I caught it in time, but evidently I did not.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by sseltser

My association now requires its newer officials to complete an online training course through the American Sport Education Program (asep.com). This question was part of the course and I'd like to hear your thoughts:

A post player runs toward the basket for a pass from the guard. A defender steps into position and plants both feet right in the post player's path, a few steps away. The post player catches the ball and then immediately slams into the defender. What call should the lead official make?

a. incindental contact; no foul
b. charging foul
c. blocking foul
d. intentional blocking foul charging foul

How would you answer this question?

If this is for Federation rules, the correct answer is not listed.

It should read (e) a player control foul. The contact is certainly not incidental. The foul is not charging because charging is when a player does not have the ball. It is not blocking because the defender legally obtained that spot on the floor. It is not whatever d is because d is quagmosh.

[Nevadaref]

You know that you can delete the other post, right?

Click on the thread, click edit, hit the delete circle, then confirm.

[Adam]

Aside from the fact that the list of possible answers is incomplete, it's a really stupid question for a test. It's a had-to-see-it play, and to make a judgment from a written description is impossible here.

As described, the key words seem to be "a few steps away." Given that, I don't see how it can possibly be called a block.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

The foul is not charging because charging is when a player does not have the ball.

Is that your final answer?

NFHS 10-6-1 "A player shall not hold, push, charge, trip..."
Note that it's "A player" not "A player without the ball"

NFHS 10-6-7 "A dribbler shall neither charge into nor contact an opponent..."
A dribbler certainly has the ball, and apparently he can charge, even with the ball.

You are, of course, correct that it would be a player control foul. Not because it can't be charging since he has the ball, but because he commited charging while he had the ball.

NFHS 4-19-7 "A player control foul is a common foul committed by a player while he/she is in control of the ball..."

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Is that your final answer?

NFHS 10-6-1 "A player shall not hold, push, charge, trip..."
Note that it's "A player" not "A player without the ball"

NFHS 10-6-7 "A dribbler shall neither charge into nor contact an opponent..."
A dribbler certainly has the ball, and apparently he can charge, even with the ball.

You are, of course, correct that it would be a player control foul. Not because it can't be charging since he has the ball, but because he commited charging while he had the ball.

NFHS 4-19-7 "A player control foul is a common foul committed by a player while he/she is in control of the ball..."

What BITS said. Thanks!

Originally Posted by sseltser

My association now requires its newer officials to complete an online training course through the American Sport Education Program (asep.com). This question was part of the course and I'd like to hear your thoughts:

A post player runs toward the basket for a pass from the guard. A defender steps into position and plants both feet right in the post player's path, a few steps away. The post player catches the ball and then immediately slams into the defender. What call should the lead official make?

a. incindental contact; no foul
b. charging foul
c. blocking foul
d. intentional blocking foul charging foul

How would you answer this question?

Assuming a legal stance, the defender does not need to give time or distance to a player with the ball. Also you stated he already was "a few steps away" from the player before he had the ball, which satisfies that requirement as well (no more than two steps required). This is clearly a charge AND player control foul (one foul - not mutually exclusive). A charge can be a player control foul or not. The signal for a charge is the "push" signal (two hands out from the body). The signal for player control foul is hand behind the head.

[blindzebra1]

Originally Posted by sseltser

My association now requires its newer officials to complete an online training course through the American Sport Education Program (asep.com). This question was part of the course and I'd like to hear your thoughts:

A post player runs toward the basket for a pass from the guard. A defender steps into position and plants both feet right in the post player's path, a few steps away. The post player catches the ball and then immediately slams into the defender. What call should the lead official make?

a. incindental contact; no foul
b. charging foul
c. blocking foul
d. intentional blocking foul charging foul

How would you answer this question?

charge

[jer166]

Sorry for coming into this discussion late. The 2007-2008 Simplified & Illustrated has almost this exact scenario on page 137.

[btaylor64]

I have a block as well. I understand the defender is "a few steps away", but with a moving player who is catching the ball, the defender must give time and distance to that player and later in the sitch it says, "the post player catches, and immediately slams into the defender". The way I see this in my head (which I agree is a "I would have to see it" play) it is a blocking foul.

Originally Posted by sseltser

A post player runs toward the basket for a pass from the guard. A defender steps into position and plants both feet right in the post player's path, a few steps away. The post player catches the ball and then immediately slams into the defender. What call should the lead official make?

IMO I'd go with the charge on this. As written, the defender was a few steps away. That is time and distance. The fact that he caught the ball and immediately slams into the defender is irrelevant.
If he didn't catch the ball, but still slammed into the defender what would you have? A charge.
Why penalize good defense if he achieved LGP per rule?

[Kelvin green]

Where do you come up with "with a moving player who is catching the ball, the defender must give time and distance to that player"

There is no time and distance required when the player catches the ball. Go back an reread the casebook play that Nevada posted.

If the offense player has caught the ball; it is a guarding situation and no time or distance is required in NFHS Ball. The NBA has a different rule but not high school.

This is a play where you have to see the whle play and know what happened first but as described catch then collision in Legal guarding position it is a charge/PC foul