Closely Guarded Post Player

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Perhaps part of the confusion lies with the fact that, according to Fed. mechanics, the L does not show a visible count in these situations,

Even in 2-whistle??? The Trail is supposed to watch all the off-ball stuff AND get the closely guarded count in the Lead's primary?

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Even in 2-whistle??? The Trail is supposed to watch all the off-ball stuff AND get the closely guarded count in the Lead's primary?

That is what I've been told, many times, by many different officials, including clinician-certified State Final officials.

I happen to disagree with the mechanic. I have asked these officials, many times, why it is necessary to have 2 sets of eyes on-ball (L, and the C or T with the count), but no one can tell me why it's acceptable in this instance.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

That is what I've been told, many times, by many different officials, including clinician-certified State Final officials.

I happen to disagree with the mechanic. I have asked these officials, many times, why it is necessary to have 2 sets of eyes on-ball (L, and the C or T with the count), but no one can tell me why it's acceptable in this instance.

The NFHS manual very clearly says that the official that has primary coverage is responsible for the five second count. See page 61, section 3.3.2 B. This includes the lead official.

If you have your own manual that says otherwise, fine. Most time when someone says this, they either work NCAAM or just mirror what they see in NCAAM games on TV.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

The NFHS manual very clearly says that the official that has primary coverage is responsible for the five second count. See page 61, section 3.3.2 B. This includes the lead official.

If you have your own manual that says otherwise, fine. Most time when someone says this, they either work NCAAM or just mirror what they see in NCAAM games on TV.

Well, M&M does work in Illinois; that could be a major factor here.

[APG]

Didn't NFHS have a POE in the recent past stating the lead should have a visible closely guarded count when applicablie? How's a head coach suppose to know that an official has a count and how far along in the count before a violation?

As far as the OP's post goes, most definitely the closely guarded count does apply here. I've never gotten to five but had some counts get close.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Well, M&M does work in Illinois; that could be a major factor here.

Well, if I find that IL manual, I know where I'll put it...

Oh, and shut up.

[Judtech]

Maybe it is just me, and I wouldn't be suprised if it was, but has anyone called a 5 second violation on a player on the low block? I can see a high post 5 second call but a low post one? If a player holds for 4 seconds, dribbles for 4 seconds and then holds for 4 that is a lot of time in the post. Not thinking of anytime I would have called this, but again, it might be just me.
As per the OP, the T could have this call in NCAA W. Although, Id fill it under ," I'll call it, you explain it"! LOL

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Judtech

Maybe it is just me, and I wouldn't be suprised if it was, but has anyone called a 5 second violation on a player on the low block? I can see a high post 5 second call but a low post one? If a player holds for 4 seconds, dribbles for 4 seconds and then holds for 4 that is a lot of time in the post. Not thinking of anytime I would have called this, but again, it might be just me.
As per the OP, the T could have this call in NCAA W. Although, Id fill it under ," I'll call it, you explain it"! LOL

The primary has the count in NCAAW, unless that's changed recently.

The place where it's important, IMO, is when the post player gets trapped right about the time the official would've been at 3 or so. Too late to start a fresh count then, but a 5-second call is just as valid there as anywhere else on the court.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

The NFHS manual very clearly says that the official that has primary coverage is responsible for the five second count. See page 61, section 3.3.2 B. This includes the lead official.

If you have your own manual that says otherwise, fine. Most time when someone says this, they either work NCAAM or just mirror what they see in NCAAM games on TV.

Ok, cool - maybe this is a change from past manuals. I know I have been told in the past, at several different HS camps, by several different higher-level officials, that the L never has a 5-sec. count. I may have to ask these same officials if they've changed their thinking, or if they are simply stubborn. Like a few people on here...

I know in NCAA-W the L most definitely is responsible for the 5-sec. count. It makes the most sense, given the responses above - if there are 2 (or 3?!?) sets of eyes on the ball, who has the rest of the players?

My purpose in pointing this out was in reference to the OP - there may be other officials that carry that same idea, and that may be why Fritz had not noticed the L count before.