Whistle for a sub?

[BillyMac]

(Apologies to William Jefferson Clinton)

Originally Posted by chseagle

Everything I am reading/understanding of the horn sounding is a courtesy, not required, for notifying of subs at the table.

From NFHS Instructions To Scorers: The scorer should not signal after the free thrower or thrower has been handed the ball or the ball is at the disposal of such player or team or until the official has completed reporting a foul.

Does the word, "signal", refer to sounding the horn?

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

(Apologies to William Jefferson Clinton)



From NFHS Instructions To Scorers: The scorer should not signal after the free thrower or thrower has been handed the ball or the ball is at the disposal of such player or team or until the official has completed reporting a foul.

Does the word, "signal", refer to sounding the horn?

That is the only case I have noticed that mentions the sounding of the horn.

I am meaning all times though, not just specific times.

The text you quoted, should say: "The scorer shall not signal after the free thrower or thrower has been handed the ball or the ball is at the disposal of such player or team or until the official has completed reporting a foul." The only time the horn/signal should sound in this situation is in case of a question or error, as long as there is sufficent evidence to do so.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

(Apologies to William Jefferson Clinton)



From NFHS Instructions To Scorers: The scorer should not signal after the free thrower or thrower has been handed the ball or the ball is at the disposal of such player or team or until the official has completed reporting a foul.

Does the word, "signal", refer to sounding the horn?

In those same instructions it says, for scorer's equipment: "Scorebook, pencils, possession arrow & signaling device with sound
different from that of the timer."

How often is it where the scorer has a seperate signaling device?

Technically, according to the rules/regulations, it is the scorer that signals subs, not the timer. Yet how can that be done if the scorer does not have a separate signaling device?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by chseagle

In those same instructions it says, for scorer's equipment: "Scorebook, pencils, possession arrow & signaling device with sound
different from that of the timer."

How often is it where the scorer has a seperate signaling device?

Technically, according to the rules/regulations, it is the scorer that signals subs, not the timer. Yet how can that be done if the scorer does not have a separate signaling device?

You're right, Champ. It's just not fair that the damn scorer should get to use YOUR signaling device. Geeze, he might get it all dirty or sumthin'. And it's just not FAIR if the scorer wants you to sound your signalling device for him. Why should YOU do his job for him? Next time a scorer tries to pull that crap on you, tell him to piss off and get his own signalling device just like the rules tell him to.

Stand up for your rights. If the scorer wants to do that, call the AD. Wait, you're the acting AD, aren't you? That won't work. Call gym security instead? Wait, you're acting gym security, aren't you? That won't work either. Tell the head refereee. Wait, you're also the acting head referee, aren't you. DAMN!

Just call 9-1-1.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Just call 9-1-1.

The try shall be attempted from within the free-throw semicircle and behind the free-throw line.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Next time a scorer tries to pull that crap on you, tell him to piss off and get his own signalling device just like the rules tell him to.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You're right, Champ. It's just not fair that the damn scorer should get to use YOUR signaling device. Geeze, he might get it all dirty or sumthin'. And it's just not FAIR if the scorer wants you to sound your signalling device for him. Why should YOU do his job for him? Next time a scorer tries to pull that crap on you, tell him to piss off and get his own signalling device just like the rules tell him to.

Stand up for your rights. If the scorer wants to do that, call the AD. Wait, you're the acting AD, aren't you? That won't work. Call gym security instead? Wait, you're acting gym security, aren't you? That won't work either. Tell the head refereee. Wait, you're also the acting head referee, aren't you. DAMN!

Just call 9-1-1.

If I was, all you say I am, wouldn't I be getting paid instead of volunteer?

If a "person" closely reads the rules/regulstions closely, the horn the timer uses is only supposed to be used for the signaling to end a quarter/half/game. It is actually supposed to be the scorer that is to signal for subs after those subs are at the table & properly reported in.

Same can be said if there is a blarge/error in the score or a question concerning the score or fouls, it's the scorer that is supposed to signal, not the timer.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by chseagle

1) If I was, all you say I am, wouldn't I be getting paid instead of volunteer?

2) If a "person" closely reads the rules/regulations closely, the horn the timer uses is only supposed to be used for the signaling to end a quarter/half/game. It is actually supposed to be the scorer that is to signal for subs after those subs are at the table & properly reported in. Same can be said if there is a blarge/error in the score or a question concerning the score or fouls, it's the scorer that is supposed to signal, not the timer.

I agree. It's an outrage that you're not being paid for your contributions to the CHS Eagles, their league, and basketball in general. An outrage, I tell ya!!! It's just another example of your local AD falling down on his duties. No wonder you have to do so much of his job. Maybe we can have a benefit for you, or sumthin' like that. Making sell ribbons. Or Livechseagle bracelets.

2) I also agree with that. It's not only an outrage, it's a travesty of the game that no one has ever given you your very own signaling device to follow the correct rules/regulations. An outrage AND a travesty, I tell ya!!! As of the posting of this response, I am starting up a campaign to raise the necessary funds to buy you the absolute best signaling device available. One that you can take home with you at night. In CHS Eagles' colors, of course. All donations can be sent to me, care of the location showing on my profile.

Please help send a signaling device to Chseagle before it's too late! Give 'til it hurts!

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I agree. It's an outrage that you're not being paid for your contributions to the CHS Eagles, their league, and basketball in general. An outrage, I tell ya!!! It's just another example of your local AD falling down on his duties. No wonder you have to do so much of his job. Maybe we can have a benefit for you, or sumthin' like that. Making sell ribbons. Or Livechseagle bracelets.

2) I also agree with that. It's not only an outrage, it's a travesty of the game that no one has ever given you your very own signaling device to follow the correct rules/regulations. An outrage AND a travesty, I tell ya!!! As of the posting of this response, I am starting up a campaign to raise the necessary funds to buy you the absolute best signaling device available. One that you can take home with you at night. In CHS Eagles' colors, of course. All donations can be sent to me, care of the location showing on my profile.

Please help send a signaling device to Chseagle before it's too late! Give 'til it hurts!

I do not mind volunteering my time, considering generally I can get a hot dog or two afterwards or maybe the rest of the popcorn that wasn't sold.

However, I do feel that if a person is actually getting paid, like the Varsity person is ($35 a night for 2 games), that they should be on the ball with all the current rules/regulations.

On any basketball night I average 3-4 games at the table, & 1-2 working as crowd control/security. I do it to support my alma mater (I know the question arises about neutrality) & to lessen the burden of having to find personnel to do table ops.

Last year, for the one game where I did Boys' Varsity Timer/Scoreboard I just happened to be in the right place at the right time, as the regular person did not show up that night.

For the 4A Regional I've done the past couple of years, I have done that to lessen the burden of those running ir to give them a truly neutral person that has no vested interest in the schools participating. Sure I may of gotten paid there but to me that was just an additional perk.

I do table ops cause I enjoy doing it & it gives me time away from the house, especially since I am unable to find any long term/permanent employment.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by chseagle

I am unable to find any long term/permanent employment.

go figure

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Does the word, "signal", refer to sounding the horn?

Whatinthehell else could you expect the scorer to do?

Send a text message to the official's blackberry? Use little flags to semaphore in a sub? Send a singing telegram? Stand on the scorers table with a megaphone and shout "hey stoopid, I got a sub here to come in"? Use sign language? A starter's gun?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Whatinthehell else could you expect the scorer to do?

Use little flags to semaphore in a sub?

YouTube - The semaphore version of 'Wuthering Heights' - sub esp

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

YouTube - The semaphore version of 'Wuthering Heights' - sub esp

Damn, gotta love the Pythons. Thanks, Rich.

I'd love to see a scorer sending in smoke signals for a sub.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Everything I am reading/understanding of the horn sounding is a courtesy, not required, for notifying of subs at the table.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

From NFHS Instructions To Scorers: The scorer should not signal after the free thrower or thrower has been handed the ball or the ball is at the disposal of such player or team or until the official has completed reporting a foul. Does the word, "signal", refer to sounding the horn?

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Whatinthehell else could you expect the scorer to do?

I was trying to find a NFHS reference to a required procedure of sounding a horn to signal for substitutions. I didn't spend to much time looking, so I might have missed something, but I was surprised that the one and only reference I found was in the NFHS Instructions To Scorers. I could find no other reference in the rulebook or casebook. I was also surprised that it is a negative reference, that is, "should not signal". I would have thought that the NFHS would have a procedure as to when to properly signal for a substitution. I'm sure that I have overlooked something in my haste to quickly come up with an answer.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Page 41:
Everything I am reading/understanding of the horn sounding is a courtesy, not required, for notifying of subs at the table.

Unless there is something I missed of course.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

From NFHS Instructions To Scorers: The scorer should not signal after the free thrower or thrower has been handed the ball or the ball is at the disposal of such player or team or until the official has completed reporting a foul.

Does the word, "signal", refer to sounding the horn?

Originally Posted by chseagle

That is the only case I have noticed that mentions the sounding of the horn.

I am meaning all times though, not just specific times.

The text you quoted, should say: "The scorer shall not signal after the free thrower or thrower has been handed the ball or the ball is at the disposal of such player or team or until the official has completed reporting a foul." The only time the horn/signal should sound in this situation is in case of a question or error, as long as there is sufficent evidence to do so.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I was trying to find a NFHS reference to a required procedure of sounding a horn to signal for substitutions. I didn't spend to much time looking, so I might have missed something, but I was surprised that the one and only reference I found was in the NFHS Instructions To Scorers. I could find no other reference in the rulebook or casebook. I was also surprised that it is a negative reference, that is, "should not signal". I would have thought that the NFHS would have a procedure as to when to properly signal for a substitution. I'm sure that I have overlooked something in my haste to quickly come up with an answer.

Did either of you bother to read 3-3-1d?

"If entry is at any time other than between quarters, and a substitute who is
entitled and ready to enter reports to the scorer, the scorer shall use a
sounding device or game horn, if, or as soon as, the ball is dead and the
clock is stopped."