Whistle for a sub?

[tomegun]

For those who are saying they use their whistle to get your partner's attention, is your table crew not doing their job? I know Rut says he tells them not to give him a horn, but other people haven't really been mentioning it. If the horn is going off, isn't this enough to get your partners attention?

Another reason I don't care for the whistle is communication. I'm going to vocalize a lot of things during a game that I don't hear from other officials. For instance, I have seen a ball bouncing away before inbounding and an official blows a whistle to "tell" a player to get the ball for him. Really? Why can't we talk? I have of the horn, "Blue sub" preference, but I'm listening.

As far as two-hand mechanics, I need patience. I was asked about it last year and was told "We are not college officials" by an official. I need patience in this situation because this particular officials, like many others, should be more concerned with making the right call before getting to the table. In my particular association I think we have bigger fish to fry. Again, I'm all ears.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tomegun

For those who are saying they use their whistle to get your partner's attention, is your table crew not doing their job? I know Rut says he tells them not to give him a horn, but other people haven't really been mentioning it. If the horn is going off, isn't this enough to get your partners attention?

I'll mention it, then. In my meeting with the table, I instruct the timer to only give a horn for subs when we don't recognize them. It may happen once or twice a game where we're too slow for the timer or the timer's too quick for us. Frankly, my timing is better than theirs 99% of the time.

When watching JV games, it seems awkward watching the guys wait for the horn and then do the little wave to bring the player in.

I have always and will always report with one hand until told otherwise. However, I don't care if others use two hands.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I'll mention it, then. In my meeting with the table, I instruct the timer to only give a horn for subs when we don't recognize them. It may happen once or twice a game where we're too slow for the timer or the timer's too quick for us. Frankly, my timing is better than theirs 99% of the time.

Exactly. Don't blame the damn horn unless he's sitting on the X and I'm in la-la land.

[CLH]

Originally Posted by tomegun

For those who are saying they use their whistle to get your partner's attention, is your table crew not doing their job? I know Rut says he tells them not to give him a horn, but other people haven't really been mentioning it. If the horn is going off, isn't this enough to get your partners attention?

Another reason I don't care for the whistle is communication. I'm going to vocalize a lot of things during a game that I don't hear from other officials. For instance, I have seen a ball bouncing away before inbounding and an official blows a whistle to "tell" a player to get the ball for him. Really? Why can't we talk? I have of the horn, "Blue sub" preference, but I'm listening.

I'd love to work these game you guys get where the table does everything exactly as instructed and never misses a beat! Sounds just grand!

I'm not really sure what your second point has to do with a whistle for subs, but I'll go with it!

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by CLH

I'm not really sure what your second point has to do with a whistle for subs, but I'll go with it!

My second point has to do with using the whistle in a robotic manner instead of communicating...wait for it...with our mouths.

Our table crews are not perfect, but we aren't either. However, they do go through training and attend meetings like we do. They are taught to hit the horn so it isn't a big deal for them to do it consistently. I failed to mention, there are instances where a whistle is necessary like after the last free throw when a team may try to get the ball in quick.

[chartrusepengui]

Originally Posted by tomegun

For those who are saying they use their whistle to get your partner's attention, is your table crew not doing their job? I know Rut says he tells them not to give him a horn, but other people haven't really been mentioning it. If the horn is going off, isn't this enough to get your partners attention?

The horn going off is to get your attention, the whistle while waving subs on lets everyone know that a sub is coming into the game - there can be no error. Please, let's not assume that everyone running the clock, scoring, or officiating is always on the same page. We've all worked with people that don't pay enough attention at times. The whistle helps to eliminate confusion, and IMHO, also helps get the substitues attention so that they know they can enter the court. It also has helped in my area so that the minute the horns sounds they are not running onto the court - they must wait for the official to beckon them onto court - whith the whistle - they know which official to look at.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

The horn going off is to get your attention, the whistle while waving subs on lets everyone know that a sub is coming into the game - there can be no error. Please, let's not assume that everyone running the clock, scoring, or officiating is always on the same page. We've all worked with people that don't pay enough attention at times. The whistle helps to eliminate confusion, and IMHO, also helps get the substitues attention so that they know they can enter the court. It also has helped in my area so that the minute the horns sounds they are not running onto the court - they must wait for the official to beckon them onto court - whith the whistle - they know which official to look at.

I take your response as the most "matter of factly" so far. That being the case, why isn't it in the manual then? You know what I do? The horn sounds and in a voice so I can be heard I say...wait for it..."Subs!" If I'm in a situation where I cannot be heard I may use my whistle. This response causes me to ask the question: since we are always talking about making eye contact with our partners, where is the eye contact in this situation? My original question and the tables in Vegas blowing the horn are not absolutes and I don't expect eye contact with a partner to be either, but where is the eye contact we talk about in meetings, on this site and in pre-games?

If I'm coming off as argumentative right now I don't mean to. I have no problem talking things out and right now I'm seeing the reason people do this as a direct contradiction with what they always preach.

[Nevadaref]

As a member of the Board for the association up North, I'll contribute my feelings.

1. NEVER use two-hand reporting in a HS game. The NFHS manual specifies "with a one-handed signal." So follow the HS mechanics or don't work that level of ball. It comes off as big-timing to use two hands for reporting numbers.

2. I ALWAYS sound the whistle when bringing in subs. Why? Because the NFHS Officials Manual says to do so. It's on pages 41 (F2) and 78 (G2), for 2-man and 3-man mechanics. There is no doubt how the NFHS wants this done.

Note:
The table crew in my area is not part of the officials association and so does not have meetings or instruction other than from us just prior to the games. We get whomever the school provides. That is a difference between here and Vegas.

[Kingsman1288]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It comes off as big-timing to use two hands for reporting numbers.

I disagree. I think people read too much into it when officials report with two hands. Yes, reporting with two hands is not correct as far as the NFHS manual is concerned and should be commented on as such. But to go as far as saying reporting that way is big timing the game? That's a bit much IMO.

[Judtech]

TOM - Since you have a whislte in your mouth when you blow it, couldn't it be argued that by blowing the whistle IS communicating with your mouth?? (J/K I will ask a player to get a ball rather than blow the whistle)
I always blow the whistle, and usually verbalize SUB, when I am bringing subs into a game. But again, I am always in the more communication camp on situations like these
As for using one or two hands reporting in HS, I TRY to use one hand but more often then not revert back to two. Part of the reason, I think, is I was asked early on "Would you rather make a $65 mistake (reporting w/ 2 hand in NFHS) or a $400 mistake (reporting with one hand in NCAA -W).?" I do agree that it CAN come off as big time, but I think that has more to do with the personality of the official than the actual mechanic.

[CLH]

Originally Posted by Judtech

As for using one or two hands reporting in HS, I TRY to use one hand but more often then not revert back to two. Part of the reason, I think, is I was asked early on "Would you rather make a $65 mistake (reporting w/ 2 hand in NFHS) or a $400 mistake (reporting with one hand in NCAA -W).?" I do agree that it CAN come off as big time, but I think that has more to do with the personality of the official than the actual mechanic.

Amen! To that one, I used to hands since I first started refereeing, it just felt more natural to me. Yeah I got picked at about it, but those who know it has nothing to do with "big timing" anyone.

[BillyMac]

After the horn sounds to get the substitutes in, if I wave in the substitutes and they don't come in, I'll yell, "Subs". If that doesn't work, I'll sound my whistle. That's the way most of us do it here in our little corner of the "Constitution State".

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I always sound the whistle when bringing in subs. Why? Because the NFHS Officials Manual says to do so. There is no doubt how the NFHS wants this done.

No whistle in the IAABO Manual.

Note to veteran NFHS mechanics users: Has the whistle for substitutes always been part of the NFHS Manual? Many years ago we used to use the NFHS mechanics, and I don't remember sounding the whistle to bring in substitutes.

[Mark Padgett]

I never whistle for a sub. However, I do sometimes whistle at a hot mom.

[truerookie]

I whistle to bring in subs and I use one hand reporting when doing HS games, on the occasion when, I have the opportunity to work NCAA-W games. I use two hand reporting. I have always been taught to be aware of what level you are working and use the proper mechanics.,