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Old Thu Mar 25, 2010, 06:33am
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transitioning from 2 whistle to 3 whistle

So I'm going to a camp this summer that's all 3 whistle. I've immersed myself in the manual, and watch as many games as I can but I'm hoping you guys can shed some light on what are some of the big differences are?

What was the learning curve like? What are some of the mistakes you first made? What do I need to know that the manual DOESN'T tell me.

Thanks.

PS If anyone has FIBA experience, that would be great since that's what I'll be using.
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Old Thu Mar 25, 2010, 06:42am
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A few suggestions:

1. Let the clinicians guide you. They're used to people who are new to 3-whistle, so be honest with them about where you are and let them help.

2. Don't worry too much about missing a rotation. A missed foul is worse than a missed rotation.

3. In my experience, 3-whistle comes pretty easily with just a little practice, especially if you move a lot in 2-whistle. That means you have good ball awareness and are used to getting a good angle.

4. As C, don't be afraid to initiate rotations when the ball comes to your side above the FT line extended. Some folks (around here at least) seem to think that only lead can initiate a rotation.

5. At camp, when you're not on the floor watch others and try to anticipate the positive and negative criticism that the clinicians will give them. That tests your mechanics knowledge. But remember that theory and practice are quite different animals: it'll still feel a bit awkward when you start. And that's OK.
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Old Thu Mar 25, 2010, 07:05am
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Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
A few suggestions:

1. Let the clinicians guide you. They're used to people who are new to 3-whistle, so be honest with them about where you are and let them help.

2. Don't worry too much about missing a rotation. A missed foul is worse than a missed rotation.

3. In my experience, 3-whistle comes pretty easily with just a little practice, especially if you move a lot in 2-whistle. That means you have good ball awareness and are used to getting a good angle.

4. As C, don't be afraid to initiate rotations when the ball comes to your side above the FT line extended. Some folks (around here at least) seem to think that only lead can initiate a rotation.

5. At camp, when you're not on the floor watch others and try to anticipate the positive and negative criticism that the clinicians will give them. That tests your mechanics knowledge. But remember that theory and practice are quite different animals: it'll still feel a bit awkward when you start. And that's OK.
Thanks. Last time I went to one of these camps we were assigned during off games to man the camera. The clinicians wear a wireless lavalier mic and you have an ear piece so you're able to listen to the other campers constructive criticism.
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Old Thu Mar 25, 2010, 08:52am
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Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
2. Don't worry too much about missing a rotation. A missed foul is worse than a missed rotation.
I can't emphasize this one enough. While it's important to use peripheral vision to know where your partners are positioned, your main focus should be on any competitive match-ups in your PCA whether or not the ball is in your primary.

Good luck!
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Old Thu Mar 25, 2010, 09:11am
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For what it's worth, I got thrown into an unexpected 3-man situation two months ago.

I was working the typical 2-man crew in a JV game, when my partner tore his Achilles in the second quarter. I ran up to the locker room to alert the varsity officials, who had just arrived. My partner and I finished the half somehow (he stayed near the division line, I tried working lead on both ends...whew!).

In the second half, I was expecting that only one would fill in, but the veteran pair announced to me that we were going 3-man. I'm a 5th year official, and I hadn't taken the 3-man training, figuring I wouldn't need it until next year, at least. I haven't really looked at the 3-man mechanics in the book, so I got uncomfortable quickly. I admit it was a bit disoriented at first, as my partners had to tell me where to go and how to get there. I only had a vague idea what the center's PCA was. In time, though, the pointers settled in, and I got the flow of it.

Simply put, if I can figure it out with zero training, you should be fine after studying the book, and a lot quicker than I did.
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Old Thu Mar 25, 2010, 09:43am
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Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
For what it's worth, I got thrown into an unexpected 3-man situation two months ago.

I was working the typical 2-man crew in a JV game, when my partner tore his Achilles in the second quarter. I ran up to the locker room to alert the varsity officials, who had just arrived. My partner and I finished the half somehow (he stayed near the division line, I tried working lead on both ends...whew!).

In the second half, I was expecting that only one would fill in, but the veteran pair announced to me that we were going 3-man. I'm a 5th year official, and I hadn't taken the 3-man training, figuring I wouldn't need it until next year, at least. I haven't really looked at the 3-man mechanics in the book, so I got uncomfortable quickly. I admit it was a bit disoriented at first, as my partners had to tell me where to go and how to get there. I only had a vague idea what the center's PCA was. In time, though, the pointers settled in, and I got the flow of it.

Simply put, if I can figure it out with zero training, you should be fine after studying the book, and a lot quicker than I did.
I'm not really sure you actually "figure"d out 3 Man in one half of a basketball. It took me 2 camps and about 15 games for me to even attempt to say I've figured it out.......but to each his own.
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Old Thu Mar 25, 2010, 10:08am
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It still amazes me that officials new to 3 person think they have it all figured out after working half a game or even 10,20, or 30 games. I guess that is just the world we live in, everything is done now and at a rapid pace. I have been working 3 person for about 12 years, and am now comfortable saying that "I get it."I may be a slow learner, but I do think we all have the opinion that we learn quicker than we do. For any official to think they skilled and adept at all of the nuances of 3 person mechanics after less than 2 or 3 seasons (at minimum) or after 50-75 games (at minimum) is a less than accurate statement.
Be careful with that over inflated opinion we have concerning our knowledge and understanding of 3 person. To know the basics is one thing, but to be able to work it as it should be worked is quite a different story. It takes practice, practice, and more practice to instinctively react to the changing flow of a game to really work the game as it was intended with 3 officials. Be careful of all the self inflicted back patting on your skill level. the bottom line is that it really takes years and hundreds of games before we call the game without thinking of calling the game. Where's my primary? Should i have put a whistle on that play? Was i correct in rotating as soon or as slow as I did? Can I be trusted to call my primary? do I reach out of my primary when I should and when I should not?
Interested in your thoughts. thanks
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Old Thu Mar 25, 2010, 11:05am
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Mikeref - I've only been doing three-man seriously for less than a yr and I certainly understand where you're coming from.

I know it's going to take me a while to develop the same confidence and abilities I have after several season's of two-man. How long? Well, that is dictated by each individual and their abilities....but for me, I'm certainly not their yet and agree with you that it will take some time.

As I have said before though, kudos to my Association. They have taught me and brought me along at a very steady pace. I will probably work and watch a great many three-man games during our spring and summer leagues and be more confident than ever going into the next V season during the winter of 10/11.
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Old Thu Mar 25, 2010, 11:21am
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This is why Wisconsin has trouble accepting 3 man crews. Each conference decides if they want 2 or 3 man crews and the state tourney is all 3 man. So guys work both 2 and 3 man troughout the season and without dedicating to all varsity 3 man you can't become proficient at Officiating 3 man games because it takes a lot of games to get it.
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Old Thu Mar 25, 2010, 11:43am
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My first 3 man game, after roughly a jillion 2 man, I struggled with the feeling that I was in somebody else's way for most of the game. This feeling, obviously, was without merit. Call the game.
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Old Thu Mar 25, 2010, 12:01pm
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Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
My first 3 man game, after roughly a jillion 2 man, I struggled with the feeling that I was in somebody else's way for most of the game. This feeling, obviously, was without merit. Call the game.
I've done two or three off season's worth of 3 man.....the feeling you just described fits the way I felt too. It's going to take a lot of repetition and patience for me. One day it will click, though, I'm sure.

Question....I watch a lot of college ball at various levels. Is the basic rotation the same as NFHS rotation? Seems like what I've watched on TV and in person at the college level is different than what I've done in 3 man. Don't want to waste time focusing on that part of 3 man in the college game if it's not applicable to NF.
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Old Thu Mar 25, 2010, 12:17pm
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Originally Posted by DLH17 View Post
Question....I watch a lot of college ball at various levels. Is the basic rotation the same as NFHS rotation? Seems like what I've watched on TV and in person at the college level is different than what I've done in 3 man. Don't want to waste time focusing on that part of 3 man in the college game if it's not applicable to NF.
The rotations are the same. The switches are different (FED and NCAAW do it one way; NCAAM another).
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Old Thu Mar 25, 2010, 12:21pm
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Old Thu Mar 25, 2010, 12:21pm
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When you rotate as the lead, don't forget to referee the paint as you move across the lane.

When you're at T or C and a shot goes up, don't bail and start moving toward half court. You're there to watch rebounding action. Trust yourself to get back on a break if that happens. Those two things were something I frequently goofed on when I started out.

DLH.....What do you notice about NCAA rotations that seem to differ from NFHS?
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Old Thu Mar 25, 2010, 01:06pm
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Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
The rotations are the same. The switches are different (FED and NCAAW do it one way; NCAAM another).
How do the switches differ, if you don't mind breaking it down. Thanks.
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