Whistle for a sub?

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

As a member of the Board for the association up North, I'll contribute my feelings.

1. NEVER use two-hand reporting in a HS game. The NFHS manual specifies "with a one-handed signal." So follow the HS mechanics or don't work that level of ball. It comes off as big-timing to use two hands for reporting numbers.

2. I ALWAYS sound the whistle when bringing in subs. Why? Because the NFHS Officials Manual says to do so. It's on pages 41 (F2) and 78 (G2), for 2-man and 3-man mechanics. There is no doubt how the NFHS wants this done.

Note:
The table crew in my area is not part of the officials association and so does not have meetings or instruction other than from us just prior to the games. We get whomever the school provides. That is a difference between here and Vegas.

Page 41:
F. The official beckoning the substitutes should:
1. Ensure that it is appropriate to beckon substitutes (i.e., the ball is not
live, fellow official needs to report a foul).
2. Sound his/her whistle, raise an open hand.
3. Motion for the substitutes to enter the court.
4. Keep the other hand raised (stop-clock signal) until the substitution(s)
is completed and play may begin.

Page 78:
G. The official beckoning the substitutes should:
1. Ensure that it is appropriate to beckon substitutes (i.e., the ball is not
live, fellow official needs to report a foul).
2. Sound his/her whistle, raise an open hand.
3. Motion for the substitutes to enter the court.
4. Keep the other hand raised (stop-clock signal) until the substitution(s)
is completed and play may begin.

Everything I am reading/understanding of the horn sounding is a courtesy, not required, for notifying of subs at the table.

Unless there is something I missed of course.

[BillyMac]

(Apologies to William Jefferson Clinton)

Originally Posted by chseagle

Everything I am reading/understanding of the horn sounding is a courtesy, not required, for notifying of subs at the table.

From NFHS Instructions To Scorers: The scorer should not signal after the free thrower or thrower has been handed the ball or the ball is at the disposal of such player or team or until the official has completed reporting a foul.

Does the word, "signal", refer to sounding the horn?

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

(Apologies to William Jefferson Clinton)



From NFHS Instructions To Scorers: The scorer should not signal after the free thrower or thrower has been handed the ball or the ball is at the disposal of such player or team or until the official has completed reporting a foul.

Does the word, "signal", refer to sounding the horn?

That is the only case I have noticed that mentions the sounding of the horn.

I am meaning all times though, not just specific times.

The text you quoted, should say: "The scorer shall not signal after the free thrower or thrower has been handed the ball or the ball is at the disposal of such player or team or until the official has completed reporting a foul." The only time the horn/signal should sound in this situation is in case of a question or error, as long as there is sufficent evidence to do so.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

(Apologies to William Jefferson Clinton)



From NFHS Instructions To Scorers: The scorer should not signal after the free thrower or thrower has been handed the ball or the ball is at the disposal of such player or team or until the official has completed reporting a foul.

Does the word, "signal", refer to sounding the horn?

In those same instructions it says, for scorer's equipment: "Scorebook, pencils, possession arrow & signaling device with sound
different from that of the timer."

How often is it where the scorer has a seperate signaling device?

Technically, according to the rules/regulations, it is the scorer that signals subs, not the timer. Yet how can that be done if the scorer does not have a separate signaling device?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Does the word, "signal", refer to sounding the horn?

Whatinthehell else could you expect the scorer to do?

Send a text message to the official's blackberry? Use little flags to semaphore in a sub? Send a singing telegram? Stand on the scorers table with a megaphone and shout "hey stoopid, I got a sub here to come in"? Use sign language? A starter's gun?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Whatinthehell else could you expect the scorer to do?

Use little flags to semaphore in a sub?

YouTube - The semaphore version of 'Wuthering Heights' - sub esp

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Everything I am reading/understanding of the horn sounding is a courtesy, not required, for notifying of subs at the table.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

From NFHS Instructions To Scorers: The scorer should not signal after the free thrower or thrower has been handed the ball or the ball is at the disposal of such player or team or until the official has completed reporting a foul. Does the word, "signal", refer to sounding the horn?

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Whatinthehell else could you expect the scorer to do?

I was trying to find a NFHS reference to a required procedure of sounding a horn to signal for substitutions. I didn't spend to much time looking, so I might have missed something, but I was surprised that the one and only reference I found was in the NFHS Instructions To Scorers. I could find no other reference in the rulebook or casebook. I was also surprised that it is a negative reference, that is, "should not signal". I would have thought that the NFHS would have a procedure as to when to properly signal for a substitution. I'm sure that I have overlooked something in my haste to quickly come up with an answer.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

YouTube - The semaphore version of 'Wuthering Heights' - sub esp

Damn, gotta love the Pythons. Thanks, Rich.

I'd love to see a scorer sending in smoke signals for a sub.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by chseagle

In those same instructions it says, for scorer's equipment: "Scorebook, pencils, possession arrow & signaling device with sound
different from that of the timer."

How often is it where the scorer has a seperate signaling device?

Technically, according to the rules/regulations, it is the scorer that signals subs, not the timer. Yet how can that be done if the scorer does not have a separate signaling device?

You're right, Champ. It's just not fair that the damn scorer should get to use YOUR signaling device. Geeze, he might get it all dirty or sumthin'. And it's just not FAIR if the scorer wants you to sound your signalling device for him. Why should YOU do his job for him? Next time a scorer tries to pull that crap on you, tell him to piss off and get his own signalling device just like the rules tell him to.

Stand up for your rights. If the scorer wants to do that, call the AD. Wait, you're the acting AD, aren't you? That won't work. Call gym security instead? Wait, you're acting gym security, aren't you? That won't work either. Tell the head refereee. Wait, you're also the acting head referee, aren't you. DAMN!

Just call 9-1-1.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Just call 9-1-1.

The try shall be attempted from within the free-throw semicircle and behind the free-throw line.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Next time a scorer tries to pull that crap on you, tell him to piss off and get his own signalling device just like the rules tell him to.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Come on Tom, we all know at the HS level that table crew compentency varies GREATLY.

It's pretty simple for me:

• Table hits horns, I use raised hand but no whistle from me
• Table doesn't hit horn and I have eye contact with my partner I use voice and raised hand
• Table doesn't hit horn and I DON'T have eye contact with my partner then I use whistle and raised hand

I really don't see what's the big deal though.

I think this is a good way of doing it.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

It ain't a big deal. You do what your local association tells you to do. That includes one hand vs. two hand reporting also. And if you're not sure, you ask.

...and they will be asking me.

[RefItUp]

Originally Posted by tref

I bring subs with a whistle. Sometimes in a crowded, loud gym we get distracted (coaches, hot moms, etc) during dead balls. I think the whistle catches everyones attention & prevents the ball from being inbounded with too many players on the court.

Two handed reporting in HS? I dont, some say its disrespecting the HS game by doing so...

This is a good point; I only blow the whistle if I feel my partner didn't see the subs. However, we talk about this during our pregame meeting. Sometimes we have tableside get the sub or others feel more comfortable having the center grab the subs. Obviously thats in 3 man mechanics.

Two man the trail will have to get the subs.

Another big thing, something that I'm picky about, is making eye contact before putting the ball into play. I will stand there and wait until all my partners have signaled to me someway or another.

Just my two cents!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by RefItUp

This is a good point; I only blow the whistle if I feel my partner didn't see the subs. However, we talk about this during our pregame meeting. Sometimes we have tableside get the sub or others feel more comfortable having the center grab the subs. Obviously thats in 3 man mechanics.

Two man the trail will have to get the subs.

Another big thing, something that I'm picky about, is making eye contact before putting the ball into play. I will stand there and wait until all my partners have signaled to me someway or another.

Just my two cents!

You probably should review proper mechanics. In 2-person, it's the official without the basketball (or the trail during free throws). For example, if I'm administering a throw-in as a trail, the lead is blowing his whistle and beckoning the subs. In both 2-person and 3-person, there is no choice in the matter -- there's a correct person to bring in subs and the other two are simply incorrect.

[JRutledge]

We teach to have the closest official to be the primary on a substitution. But I am of the opinion all of us should be aware of the situation and not allow the ball to be put in play if a sub is "ready." That does not mean "sub..sub..sub" by the coach before player can get off the bench.

Peace