The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 09, 2010, 11:28am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: South Shore Mass
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
So by this logic, what happens when a player catches the ball in the air and lands on both feet, but not simultaneously?
What does my post have to do with catching the ball? It is about ending the dribble. So why say 'by this logic' when I am talking about dribbling and you are talking about catching the ball? As you know, the rules are very specific to each.

Back to my point. I guess I am unclear as to how the player can end the dribble while in the air. What I picture is the player taking his last dribble and jumping to pass or shoot or finish his move with his jump stop or take his steps to the basket. I can't really picture a player dribbling while in the air. I guess in theory this is possible.

edit;
Just thought of this. About one year ago, I was playing in a pick-up game. Shot went up and player A rebounded and while still in the air, he dribbled the ball and then caught it and then landed. No idea why he did this but it fits perfectly in this post and is legal and now the player can pivot using either foot. I actually got into an argument with another player about this, because it looked so weird the other player said it was a travel and he could not come down with ball. I argued that he could.

Now, if this ever occurs in a game I am reffing, I know he can come down with the ball and pivot with either foot

I admit being wrong but it is a very weird play.

Last edited by hoopguy; Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 11:47am.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 09, 2010, 11:46am
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoopguy View Post
Back to my point. I guess I am unclear as to how the player can end the dribble while in the air.
Again, it's clearly delineated in the rules. As per NFHS rule 4-15-4, the dribble ends when the dribbler catches the ball or causes it to come to rest in one or both hands. And if the dribbler does that while he's airborne, he's now governed by the rule cited above--rule 4-44-2(a). If he now lands simultaneously on both feet, either foot may be the pivot. If he lands on one foot followed by the other, the first foot to touch is the pivot. If he lands on one foot, he can jump off that foot and land simultaneously on both feet but neither foot can never be the pivot.

Rule 4-44-2(b) tells you what to call when a player ends a dribble while having one foot on the floor.

If you forget about what a "jump stop" is supposed to be and simply learn those rules, you'll never have a problem getting the call right.

AllPurposeGamer gave you the correct answers.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 09, 2010, 01:45pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoopguy View Post
What does my post have to do with catching the ball? It is about ending the dribble. So why say 'by this logic' when I am talking about dribbling and you are talking about catching the ball? As you know, the rules are very specific to each.

Back to my point. I guess I am unclear as to how the player can end the dribble while in the air. What I picture is the player taking his last dribble and jumping to pass or shoot or finish his move with his jump stop or take his steps to the basket. I can't really picture a player dribbling while in the air. I guess in theory this is possible.

edit;
Just thought of this. About one year ago, I was playing in a pick-up game. Shot went up and player A rebounded and while still in the air, he dribbled the ball and then caught it and then landed. No idea why he did this but it fits perfectly in this post and is legal and now the player can pivot using either foot. I actually got into an argument with another player about this, because it looked so weird the other player said it was a travel and he could not come down with ball. I argued that he could.

Now, if this ever occurs in a game I am reffing, I know he can come down with the ball and pivot with either foot

I admit being wrong but it is a very weird play.

Actually by rule, I believe u would be wrong on that ruling. If player A attempts a dribble while in air then "by rule" he has traveled. U cannot dribble without having a pivot foot.
__________________
"players must decide the outcome of the game with legal actions, not illegal actions which an official chooses to ignore."
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 09, 2010, 02:54pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,263
Quote:
Originally Posted by btaylor64 View Post
Actually by rule, I believe u would be wrong on that ruling. If player A attempts a dribble while in air then "by rule" he has traveled. U cannot dribble without having a pivot foot.
Incorrect.

The REAL rule is that you can't start a dribble after lifting the pivot foot. If you've not yet established a pivot foot, you havn't lifted it.

So, an airborne player who starts a dribble has only traveled if they had previously been on the floor while in control of the ball AND had established a pivot foot (which might not always be the case). In this case, the player caught the ball in the air, then started the dribble, then landed....LEGAL.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 09, 2010, 03:32pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Quote:
Originally Posted by btaylor64 View Post
Actually by rule, I believe u would be wrong on that ruling. If player A attempts a dribble while in air then "by rule" he has traveled. U cannot dribble without having a pivot foot.
You're completely wrong by rule.

NFHS casebook play 4.15.1SitA(b)
While rebounding, A1 touches the ball while trying to gain control, after which A1 catches the ball and then pushes the ball to the floor to begin a dribble.
RULING: Legal. The dribble does not start until A1 has gained control.

Legal under NCAA rules also.

Camron gave the correct rationale.

Think of the play where A1 passes to A2 and A2 tips the ball to the floor without gaining possession and then dribbles away. A2 never established a pivot foot. Would you really call this traveling?

Last edited by Jurassic Referee; Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 03:38pm.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 09, 2010, 05:13pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
You're completely wrong by rule.

NFHS casebook play 4.15.1SitA(b)
While rebounding, A1 touches the ball while trying to gain control, after which A1 catches the ball and then pushes the ball to the floor to begin a dribble.
RULING: Legal. The dribble does not start until A1 has gained control.

Legal under NCAA rules also.

Camron gave the correct rationale.

Think of the play where A1 passes to A2 and A2 tips the ball to the floor without gaining possession and then dribbles away. A2 never established a pivot foot. Would you really call this traveling?
You are absolutely right. I apologize for being wrong!
__________________
"players must decide the outcome of the game with legal actions, not illegal actions which an official chooses to ignore."
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 09, 2010, 06:48pm
CLH CLH is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 293
Send a message via AIM to CLH Send a message via Yahoo to CLH
Quote:
Originally Posted by btaylor64 View Post
you are absolutely right. I apologize for being wrong!
don't let it happen again!!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 09, 2010, 02:08pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoopguy View Post
What does my post have to do with catching the ball? It is about ending the dribble. So why say 'by this logic' when I am talking about dribbling and you are talking about catching the ball? As you know, the rules are very specific to each.
The dribble has ended when the ball is caught, so the two do go hand in hand. The key is to know when the dribble ended, where the player was when they ended the dribble, how they landed & most importantly what the player is allowed to do in each situation.


BTW, the player you were arguing with in your wreck league was correct.
__________________
I gotta new attitude!

Last edited by tref; Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 02:11pm.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 10, 2010, 09:07am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by tref View Post
BTW, the player you were arguing with in your wreck league was correct.
Are you saying it's a travel violation for a player to catch the ball in the air, dribble once, collect the ball, then land?
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 10, 2010, 09:55am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,183
I was... I stand corrected
No pivot, no travel.
__________________
I gotta new attitude!
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 10, 2010, 11:33am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by tref View Post
I was... I stand corrected
No pivot, no travel.
heh
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:50am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1