Ejection ...

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

We have veteran officials that don't know how to manage a game or the coaches why would we expect this out of a rookie official...it might have gotten worse if he would have helped you out.

We have veteran officials that brag that they haven't called a technical foul in 25 years. I can only imagine the nonsense that they put up with.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

We have veteran officials that brag that they haven't called a technical foul in 25 years. I can only imagine the nonsense that they put up with.

Correct...if they didn't want us to call technical fouls they wouldn't have put them in the rulebook!

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Correct...if they didn't want us to call technical fouls they wouldn't have put them in the rulebook!

Or make them so fun to give out.

OK I don't normally think that but...

Billy, sounds like the coach was more frustrated with his team than anything and he just took it out on the stand-by boogiemen.

[zeedonk]

As I am now moving into my 4th season, I have had the "help or don't help" your partner post-T come up a few times, mainly in 3 whistle.

First of all, I hope I can recognize the veteran partner who can handle a game... and if he whacks a coach, I am not immediately coming over to bail him out. I will simply watch and if things get worse, I will come over and try to stay in my partner's line of vision to see if he gives me the "I got it" sign, at which point I will go somewhere else and begin to gather players and ID a shooter for the free throws.

Of course, we don't always get to pregame during the off season, and I am sure that a school game during the season will have this as part of our pregame.

I just think it looks bad if the partner of an obviously experienced (and capable) official comes running to the rescue because the mechanic says to come get your partner away from the coach... chances are, the vet will take care of business, spin on his heel and begin to move away-- which is my signal to come finish up over there and get things moving again... If he's still there and things are not getting worse, I'm not coming to get him.

If the crew is all about the same experience level, I'll move a little quicker, but again, I'm going to see how my partner handles it. If it's me doing the whacking, I don't run immediately away, but I don't sit and wait for conversation either. Whack, report, turn and begin moving away

Z

[Back In The Saddle]

I'm with the Juggler on this one. 0:45 left in the game, coach hasn't been a problem all game? An "I'll watch that, Coach" should be sufficient to handle the situation.

But there are no magic bullets and if the coach is tired, cranky and really just needs his wittle blankee and a nap, he may well have continued on like he did. You may still have had to toss him. But if were me, I'd feel better about the situation if my first response had been more neutral.

Just my $0.02

[Raymond]

Billy, I'm with Juggs and BITS on this one. In that particular scenario I would not have said "that's enough coach". I think an "I hear you" or "you may be right" or something to that effect would have fit better for this particular situation.

I have no problem with tossing the coach at any point in the game if he earned it.

[tref]

Billy if I recall correctly, you're an IAABO official, right?
Don't you guys practice getting with a partner on Ts before taking it to the table?

In addition to not getting procedures wrong, I think it helps get us away from the coach. And if they continue as in your sitch, now your partner gets to toss him.

As others have mentioned, I think your response may have fueled the fire.
When a team is getting smashed & coach wants to spout off at the end of the game, I generally go with "I hear you, coach" as opposed to "that's enough, coach." JMO

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by tref

I generally go with "I hear you, coach" as opposed to "that's enough, coach." JMO

Point taken. I would sure go this route if I could have a do-over. But it just happened so damn fast, and it was totally unexpected.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by tref

When a team is getting smashed & coach wants to spout off at the end of the game, I generally go with "I hear you, coach" as opposed to "that's enough, coach." JMO

And if the coach continues to complain after you tell him "I hear you, coach"...as the coach in Billy's sitch did....what then do you and the others do next? Warn him again? Ignore him?

[tref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Some officials can always find a reason NOT to call a technical foul.

Absolutely, and some officials dont have the communication skills or common sense to handle the issue before it gets to the warning &/or T stage.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And if the coach continues to complain after you tell him "I hear you, coach"...as the coach in Billy's sitch did....what then do you and the others do next? Warn him again? Ignore him?

Then I'd say "coach that's enough" communicate that to my partners & that will serve as his 1 and only official warning.

BTW "I hear you, coach" isnt an official warning in these parts!
I dont ignore coaches... I'm giving a verbal or non-verbal answer, they just want to know if we hear them, most times.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And if the coach continues to complain after you tell him "I hear you, coach"...as the coach in Billy's sitch did....what then do you and the others do next? Warn him again? Ignore him?

There is a difference between (i) "I hear you, coach" with no stop sign signal and (ii) "That's enough coach" with a stop sign.

IF the head coach were to continue after the official saying "I hear you, coach", THEN appropriate action would be taken by the official.

The sign of a fantastic official is to diffuse a situation so that it doesn't blow up. There was no opportunity of that happening in the OP.

There's a quote in Canadian football that goes like this: "the official who, through the influence of his presence, causes players to avoid rule violations has attained the perfect relationship to the game."

Certainly the quote applies to coaches as well. And there's no reason it doesn't apply to basketball as well, including basketball coaches.

The official's presence is in what he says, how he says, and his body language of how he expects the game to proceed.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

There is a difference between (i) "I hear you, coach" with no stop sign signal and (ii) "That's enough coach" with a stop sign.

IF the head coach were to continue after the official saying "I hear you, coach", THEN appropriate action would be taken by the official.

The sign of a fantastic official is to diffuse a situation so that it doesn't blow up. There was no opportunity of that happening in the OP.

1) Oh? And pray tell, whatinthehell is the difference? I sureasheck can't see one. In both cases, you're basically telling the coach that enough is enough. And in Billy's case, the head coach sureashell did continue. He told Billy that "my partner and I were doing a lousy job all night.". If Billy chose to ignore that, he shouldn't have said anything in the first place.

What are you going to do if the coach makes that same personal comment to you after you said "I hear you, coach"? Ignore it? If you do, may I suggest that you should turn in your "fantastic official" badge.

Taking care of bidness doesn't equate to a situation blowing up. We just react to the crap that comes our way. At least we should imo.

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by tref

When a team is getting smashed & coach wants to spout off at the end of the game, I generally go with "I hear you, coach" as opposed to "that's enough, coach." JMO

I agree with the Jurassic one on this. Especially with 45 seconds to go. Don't give the guy a free pass on a parting shot where he said that he thought the crew did a poor job all night. He is expecting to get away with it BECAUSE he is down 30.

Most coaches are smart enough not to use one of those magic words when they complain.

[tref]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

Don't give the guy a free pass on a parting shot where he said that he thought the crew did a poor job all night. He is expecting to get away with it BECAUSE he is down 30.

If I'm not mistaken, the coach made that comment AFTER receiving his initial T.
I didn't even comment on the second one. I only spoke on the first verbal exchange where Billy said 'that's enough coach" while giving the stop sign.

IMO there are going to be some very long nights & excess paperwork if we give a stop sign to every coach that questions a call only once.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by tref

If I'm not mistaken, the coach made that comment AFTER receiving his initial T.

You are mistaken. The coach got his initial "T" for telling Billy that he and his partner had done a lousy job all night. And he made that derogatory comment to Billy AFTER being warned. And AFTER getting his first "T" for making that derogatory comment, that coach then continued to complain and refused to shut up, earning himself the second "T".

Hey, if you want to ignore crap like that, be my guest.

If a coach makes a comment to you, as in Billy's sitch, you have 3 options. You can ignore the comment, issue a warning or hand out an immediate "T". And the option that you choose depends solely on your personal tolerance level. And I don't have a problem with that either; that's the way it should be. Pick what you think is best for that situation. But, big "but", if you do warn someone, then you HAVE to damnwell do something if the person that was warned simply ignores that warning and continues doing what he was just warned to stop doing.

If you want to ignore comments, fine. As I said, I don't have a problem with that; it's a personal choice dependant on the behavioral line that each individual official sets. But if you do warn someone, then you HAVE to follow through if that warning is ignored. That's my point. And that's why I think that Billy was completely justified in handing out the first technical foul. He chose to warn the coach(in a fairly benign, non-threatening innocuous manner btw). The coach ignored the warning and made a personal and derogatory remark. Billy had no choice imo but to follow through with his warning.