Ejection ...

[Kingsman1288]

I think the ejection was warranted. If he was down 30 pts with 45 seconds to go and he wouldn't shut up, he may have wanted to be tossed. Unless he was some kind of rookie coach or just an a$$ in general (which judging from what you told us about his previous behavior, he didn't act like one) he knew what he was doing. I don't have a problem with you giving both t's either, but I do wonder where your partner was. Did you two pre-game what would happen in a situation like this?

[rockyroad]

I have no problem with the T's. I think after the first one I - personally - would have gotten as far away from the guy as possible, but that's just me. From your description, this was a Coach who "wanted" the T's but didn't know the rules enough to realize he would get ejected on the second one. Betcha that $24 you earned that he thought it took three to get tossed. What a maroon.

[CoachCER]

Maybe he really didn't want to coach the next game.
I have been tempted before.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Kingsman1288

I do wonder where your partner was.

Good point. Rookie official. Did a nice job in both games, but to be honest with you, if he had come over to offer assistance, I would have gladly backed off to administer the free throws for the first technical foul. Maybe there would not have been a second technical charged, or at least, I wouldn't have had to charge both. Plus, it all happened so fast. It was all so surreal.

[Kingsman1288]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

if he had come over to offer assistance, I would have gladly backed off to administer the free throws for the first technical foul. Maybe there would not have been a second technical charged, or at least, I wouldn't have had to charge both.

I asked where he was for that reason. It's best to not have the same official give both technicals, but sometimes it cannot be helped like in your situation. Good job handling it.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Kingsman1288

I asked where he was for that reason. It's best to not have the same official give both technicals, but sometimes it cannot be helped like in your situation. Good job handling it.

Im not a huge fan of my partner coming in to "save" me. If a coach wants to get into it with me I deal with it. If I do end up giving him a T, I do so and move away (since there is no reason to be table side anyways after the T was issued). If he insists on keeping at it he can follow me and earn that second one. But the last thing I need is my partner to come and rescue me. I am an adult, the coach is an adult and we are dealing with a game with fixed parameters.

Its not ideal for the same official to give both T's but I do not want my partner to give the second one simply because I was to afraid of how it would look.

[Kingsman1288]

Originally Posted by deecee

Im not a huge fan of my partner coming in to "save" me. If a coach wants to get into it with me I deal with it. If I do end up giving him a T, I do so and move away (since there is no reason to be table side anyways after the T was issued). If he insists on keeping at it he can follow me and earn that second one. But the last thing I need is my partner to come and rescue me. I am an adult, the coach is an adult and we are dealing with a game with fixed parameters.

Its not ideal for the same official to give both T's but I do not want my partner to give the second one simply because I was to afraid of how it would look.

I didn't mean to imply that your partner should always come in and "save" you. Sometimes it cannot be helped for an official give both T's. However, in some situations a second T can be prevented by getting away from the coach and letting your partner handle things. Not because you were "afraid" of how it would look to give both T's, but it's simply what's best for game management.

I have seen officials continue to engage a coach after giving a T just because their ego won't let their partner help them out. That is totally wrong and only makes things worse.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Good point. Rookie official. Did a nice job in both games, but to be honest with you, if he had come over to offer assistance, I would have gladly backed off to administer the free throws for the first technical foul. Maybe there would not have been a second technical charged, or at least, I wouldn't have had to charge both. Plus, it all happened so fast. It was all so surreal.

We have veteran officials that don't know how to manage a game or the coaches why would we expect this out of a rookie official...it might have gotten worse if he would have helped you out.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

We have veteran officials that don't know how to manage a game or the coaches why would we expect this out of a rookie official...it might have gotten worse if he would have helped you out.

We have veteran officials that brag that they haven't called a technical foul in 25 years. I can only imagine the nonsense that they put up with.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

We have veteran officials that brag that they haven't called a technical foul in 25 years. I can only imagine the nonsense that they put up with.

Correct...if they didn't want us to call technical fouls they wouldn't have put them in the rulebook!

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Correct...if they didn't want us to call technical fouls they wouldn't have put them in the rulebook!

Or make them so fun to give out.

OK I don't normally think that but...

Billy, sounds like the coach was more frustrated with his team than anything and he just took it out on the stand-by boogiemen.

[zeedonk]

As I am now moving into my 4th season, I have had the "help or don't help" your partner post-T come up a few times, mainly in 3 whistle.

First of all, I hope I can recognize the veteran partner who can handle a game... and if he whacks a coach, I am not immediately coming over to bail him out. I will simply watch and if things get worse, I will come over and try to stay in my partner's line of vision to see if he gives me the "I got it" sign, at which point I will go somewhere else and begin to gather players and ID a shooter for the free throws.

Of course, we don't always get to pregame during the off season, and I am sure that a school game during the season will have this as part of our pregame.

I just think it looks bad if the partner of an obviously experienced (and capable) official comes running to the rescue because the mechanic says to come get your partner away from the coach... chances are, the vet will take care of business, spin on his heel and begin to move away-- which is my signal to come finish up over there and get things moving again... If he's still there and things are not getting worse, I'm not coming to get him.

If the crew is all about the same experience level, I'll move a little quicker, but again, I'm going to see how my partner handles it. If it's me doing the whacking, I don't run immediately away, but I don't sit and wait for conversation either. Whack, report, turn and begin moving away

Z

[tref]

Billy if I recall correctly, you're an IAABO official, right?
Don't you guys practice getting with a partner on Ts before taking it to the table?

In addition to not getting procedures wrong, I think it helps get us away from the coach. And if they continue as in your sitch, now your partner gets to toss him.

As others have mentioned, I think your response may have fueled the fire.
When a team is getting smashed & coach wants to spout off at the end of the game, I generally go with "I hear you, coach" as opposed to "that's enough, coach." JMO

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

We have veteran officials that brag that they haven't called a technical foul in 25 years. I can only imagine the nonsense that they put up with.

Sorry I'm late to the party: Rich, those vets don't have any trouble because they always choose games the night after you were in the gym!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Sorry I'm late to the party: Rich, those vets don't have any trouble because they always choose games the night after you were in the gym!

I can count the number of technical fouls I had last season on one hand. I think I had 3, although I stopped counting them years ago. Of those three, I wish I had called one earlier.

I *hate* technical fouls the same way I hate baseball ejections. It doesn't mean I won't issue them.

Back to the thread: I have always used a simple "that's 5" while holding up what is essentially a stop sign. If a sub is at the table, I'll say, "is he for 21?" If yes, on we go. If not, I start a clock. I make a serious effort to take care of this administrative business and ignore anything else that's going on at this point, which is easier if you stay a good distance from the coach (the division line lets you deal with both the table and the coach.

In this thread, we've gotten hung up on this little detail, but I don't think this subtle change in wording would've helped Billy in the OP -- the coach decided, for whatever reason, to push the envelope and there's no reason to think that in the waning moments of a 30 point blowout that the coach, who'd been quiet up to this point was going to act any different.

At this point, I probably would've not issued a technical foul, said something along the lines of "I'm sorry you feel that way," and got the hell out of there. I don't have to stand there while the coach gives me a sub. If we get to 20 seconds and there's no sub at the table, then it's an easy technical foul. With 30 seconds left in the game, the coach may want to say his piece, but I don't have to give him an audience. If this conversation started in the second quarter, well, then we'd have to deal with it, I suppose.

Of course, if this is summer ball, I'm more likely to respond in a different way. I'm talking about how I'd handle it in a game where I'm wearing long pants and the coach isn't some dad pretending to be a coach.