Things I learned at camp

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by tref

1) Really? We have a difference of opinion & you resort to name calling? That’s say a lot about you Mr. Assignor.

2) Out with the old in with the new, but dont worry about it, you'll catch on in about 3-5 years. Then we'll be practicing some other new philosophies that you'll despise

3) Our job is to judge whether that contact AFTER the release affected the shot.

1) I can't find one instance for where I called you a name. Your ideas about officiating are about the dumbest that I have ever read though. Note that relates to your opinions, not you personally.

2) And you still don't get it. And you never will get it. And I won't bother repeating myself again after saying for the last time that you haven't said one damn thing that is new in any way. Everything you said is just a re-packaged version of some very old and still valid officiating principles. And unfortunately, you don't even seem to understand the re-packaged version correctly either.

3) And that tells me all that I really need to know about you as an official. The only way that contact after the release of a shot can affect that shot is if the contact is on the ball, not on the shooter. Put that together with your statement "I explained that the contact enough for an and 1 was just enough to put the player on the line for 2 on the missed try'" and you got two statements made by you in this thread that tie for the stoopidest statements ever made on this forum.

Onwards and upwards to your Brave New World of officiating, tref. Hopefully, when you do build up some spit in your whistle, you might understand what we're talking about.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

you got two statements made by you in this thread that tie for the stoopidest statements ever made on this forum.

Ever JR? Come on man, couldn't be...

You sound like my daughter, if she cant relate to something then its stupid (but shes a child) whats your excuse??

[Jurassic Referee]

And a little research shows that we ain't really looking at a new rodeo here.

Bulls/Cavs- changed call?

Everything is changing but nothing really changes, eh Chitown?

And btw, you can add "I think we should try to find a reason to put them on the line as opposed to to looking for reasons to say 'nice try but take it out and try again'." to the list of dumbest statements ever made on this forum. The only thing that we look for is a foul, and we then have to decide whether that foul occurred in the act of shooting or not. That very basic principle seems to completely befuddle you for some reason.

[tref]

Okay, you're right JR!! I'm going to change what's been working for me & my successful pattern because some guy(s) on the internet dont agree with how I word something. Keep in mind that we haven't seen each other actually work a game. But yeah, I'm gonna conform to how you want the game called. NOT!!!

As long as all of my assignors keep putting me on quality games, your opinion really matters to me like... NOT AT ALL!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by tref

As long as all of my assignors keep putting me on quality games, your opinion really matters to me like... NOT AT ALL!

Chitown, I'm well aware if that. And I could care less what you think or do either. You're a lost cause imo going way back. I do care though about other,newer officials that might mistakenly think that there is a faint possibility that you might actually know what you're talking about. So, when you post nonsense like you've been posting in this thread, I will respond. And no doubt others will also.

You've got a great future behind you.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by tref

Ever JR? Come on man, couldn't be...

You sound like my daughter, if she cant relate to something then its stupid (but shes a child) whats your excuse??

Hyperbole? Probably.

But I will have to agree it's a position not shared by any officials that I know. And, for the record, I do know officials that referee at the NCAA level, in both men's and women's, and I know officials that have officiated at the championship games of the Illinois High School Association tournament, both on the girls' and boys' sides.

So, I am curious - which officials and/or supervisors of yours agree with your position on contact on the arm after the shot is released also affects the shot?

[tref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

So, I am curious - which officials and/or supervisors of yours agree with your position on contact on the arm after the shot is released also affects the shot?

Not gonna name drop on here M&M, but ask your buddies if theres any absolutes & always in what we do. That's what makes it an art & not a science. And wow, how did we go from hand/wrist to arm? Pretty soon its gonna be elbow taps & gut pokes...

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Chitown, I'm well aware if that. And I could care less what you think or do either.

Could've fooled me, you put so much time & effort into me as if you have nothing better to do. I, on the other hand, only come here to kill time while on my Dolly Parton

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You're a lost cause imo going way back. I do care though about other, newer officials that might mistakenly think that there is a faint possibility that you might actually know what you're talking about. So, when you post nonsense like you've been posting in this thread, I will respond. And no doubt others will also.

You've got a great future behind you.

You care about bullying newer officials, perhaps. Playing internet God...

So my future is just as bright as yours eh

Well, I'm clocking out now so I'll treat you like a coach & let you have the last word...

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by tref

Not gonna name drop on here M&M, but ask your buddies if theres any absolutes & always in what we do. That's what makes it an art & not a science. And wow, how did we go from hand/wrist to arm? Pretty soon its gonna be elbow taps & gut pokes...

You mentioned in post #63:

Originally Posted by tref

Only time I wait on a 3 is when they contact the hand/wrist just after the release. A hit prior to or upon release, I'm getting immediately as that is not a drive to the bucket (no need for patience here). The key to those plays are taking the shooter up, down & beyond.

You still haven't answered my direct question - what supervisor agrees with your statement above about waiting to see if a foul should be called on contact on the hand/wrist (arm, whatever...) after the ball is released? Also, what supervisor or higher-level official agrees with your assertion that contact after the ball is released can actually affect the shot that's already in the air, as per your post #79:

Originally Posted by tref

Contact on the follow through can change the shot, sometimes. That's what we get paid to judge.

I can understand JR's frustration, as you continue to make statements that are not widely-held in the officiating community, without backing from any rules, NFHS publications, NCAA rules, casebook, or interpretations.

You mentioned that as long as all of your assignors keep putting you on quality games, you're not going to change. Given the fact that almost everyone here has disagreed with some of your statements, that might give you reason to possibly re-consider your position. Granted, if we are all just nameless, faceless, internet posters that have no credibility, than the same obviously applies to you and your positions.

I certainly would not ask you to name-drop, but I would be curious as to the level your supervisors assign. I would also be interested if you would e-mail those assignors with the question of whether they agree with the 2 statements that have met the most disagreement here:
1. Does contact on the hand/wrist after the shot affect the shot, and thus should be waited to be called a foul until the shot is missed?
2. On a drive to the basket, can there be contact that should not be called a foul only because the player made the shot, but the exact same contact would be a foul if the shot was missed? (As per your post #52, which JR has quoted several times.)

I'm interested if you would answer any of these questions directly.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

1. Does contact on the hand/wrist after the shot affect the shot, and thus should be waited to be called a foul until the shot is missed?
2. On a drive to the basket, can there be contact that should not be called a foul only because the player made the shot, but the exact same contact would be a foul if the shot was missed? (As per your post #52, which JR has quoted several times.)

I'm interested if you would answer any of these questions directly.

Hasn't done so yet, has so? Avoided 'em like the plague.

Hey, maybe I'm the plague. Been called worse.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Hasn't done so yet, has so? Avoided 'em like the plague.

Hey, maybe I'm the plague. Been called worse.

Well, if you're picking up dog crap without using some sort of glove, I'm avoiding you too.