as a crew...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And the advice here has been to make sure the OP understands his system and who is who before saying a whole lot. Even completely professional remarks and intentions can be misconstrued by someone who wants to do so for whatever reason.

If that is the case then none of us should ever officiate. That is life. Things in life can always be misconstrued, but that does not mean that one interaction is going to be the end all be all in someone's career. We are talking about one play here that was talked about. I do not think anyone should walk on egg shells to avoid all conflicts of any kind.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Our board president does not assign games, but I would guarantee you his opinion carries a lot of weight with our board's assigner. Here, unlike your area, all assignments come from the local association, so going sideways with leadership is a great way to limit options.

In my association we need young guys. They will one day replace us in all kinds of ways. I cannot be in my position forever. I am sure many other associations realize this too.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

It seems to me there are three sorts of power players in most associations:
1. Officers (pres, vp, secretary, etc.)
2. Former Officers
3. Veterans who don't serve as official leadership but whose opinions carry significant weight.

As in every organization, some of those folks will be more "sensitive" than others.

I understand this, but this was not apart of the OP. He did not say his partners were in any particular stature other than they were veterans, which probably means they had some experience on him in officiating. Heck you might have a person that has a little experience on someone that has little perspective and they could "run and tell" what happened. We cannot spend all our time worrying about that or it will make us ineffective as officials. All veterans were helped at one time by other veterans when they were younger officials. I just think we should not automatically assume that everyone that has worked longer than you has the interest or the ability to ruin you over one game.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Heck you might have a person that has a little experience on someone that has little perspective and they could "run and tell" what happened. Peace

Not to mention, we've all worked with guys with 20 years experience, and other guys with 1 year of experience 20 times.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If that is the case then none of us should ever officiate. That is life. Things in life can always be misconstrued, but that does not mean that one interaction is going to be the end all be all in someone's career. We are talking about one play here that was talked about. I do not think anyone should walk on egg shells to avoid all conflicts of any kind.

Knowing what to say, how to say it, and to whom to say it are important traits no matter what part of life we're discussing. It's also different than walking on egg shells.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I understand this, but this was not apart of the OP. He did not say his partners were in any particular stature other than they were veterans, which probably means they had some experience on him in officiating. Heck you might have a person that has a little experience on someone that has little perspective and they could "run and tell" what happened. We cannot spend all our time worrying about that or it will make us ineffective as officials. All veterans were helped at one time by other veterans when they were younger officials. I just think we should not automatically assume that everyone that has worked longer than you has the interest or the ability to ruin you over one game.

Here is the relevant comment from the OP: "questioning seasoned veterans (a no no on our board when working with certain vets)."

I took this to mean that this group was, essentially, part of my #3 above. It doesn't mean the OP shouldn't or couldn't have probed deeper, but I think it does imply that he needs to be professional in how he brings it up. As scrapper points out, there are ways to do this by bringing it back upon yourself. For me, I can still use the "I just want to know how it's done here" card. In the OP, I could have said, "I just want to know how you guys do it so I'm consistent, but I was taught to come in with a foul in that situation. Are you saying it's expected to wait until the lead asks for help on this play?"

Maybe it shouldn't be that way, but sometimes it just is.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Knowing what to say, how to say it, and to whom to say it are important traits no matter what part of life we're discussing. It's also different than walking on egg shells.

Here is the relevant comment from the OP: "questioning seasoned veterans (a no no on our board when working with certain vets)."

I took this to mean that this group was, essentially, part of my #3 above. It doesn't mean the OP shouldn't or couldn't have probed deeper, but I think it does imply that he needs to be professional in how he brings it up. As scrapper points out, there are ways to do this by bringing it back upon yourself. For me, I can still use the "I just want to know how it's done here" card. In the OP, I could have said, "I just want to know how you guys do it so I'm consistent, but I was taught to come in with a foul in that situation. Are you saying it's expected to wait until the lead asks for help on this play?"

Maybe it shouldn't be that way, but sometimes it just is.

All I am saying is you cannot officiate in fear. You have to officiate as if you are just as good as the people you are dealing with. If there is a conflict, handle it professionally. And if there is a conflict, then know your place in that conflict. That is why the term "silence cannot be quoted" works in so many areas. But not talking about the play honestly is not good IMO. And I think stature of an official is based more on accomplishment then simply years of experience. We have many guys that have been around for 20 years but cannot work a playoff game. I would be more concerned about butting heads with the state final/college official than just a guy that I worked with that has been doing this for 15 years.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

All I am saying is you cannot officiate in fear. You have to officiate as if you are just as good as the people you are dealing with. If there is a conflict, handle it professionally. And if there is a conflict, then know your place in that conflict. That is why the term "silence cannot be quoted" works in so many areas. But not talking about the play honestly is not good IMO. And I think stature of an official is based more on accomplishment then simply years of experience. We have many guys that have been around for 20 years but cannot work a playoff game. I would be more concerned about butting heads with the state final/college official than just a guy that I worked with that has been doing this for 15 years.

Peace

Agreed.