as a crew...
 

Ok, had this pop up last night during a summer league game. How would you handle this as a crew?...

3-person. I'm L tableside (in front of A's bench). A1 has inside position for a rebound during a shot and B1 is behind him. Ball bounces high, and it's one of those real quick bang-bang out of bounds plays with both guys reaching up high to try and swipe the ball. I see the ball go off of A1's hands out of bounds, give ball to B. Team A and A's coach all have kittens in response to the call (team A coach then proceeds to question EVERY call I make for the next 5 minutes, which I know, my fault, I should haveput an end to THAT eaerly and not let it go on for several minutes).

At halftime, my partner, who was C on the particular out of bounds play says that the only reason the ball went off of A1 was b/c he was being pushed in the back by B1. I couldn't see this contact b/c I was L on the play and was looking up top at hands trying to tip the ball and apparently got straightlined.

Partner says he at T both had a push in the back on B1 but both laid off of it. They said they would have changed the call if I had asked for help on the OBB play.

Thing was, I SAW the ball go off of A (which they agree with). But if I don't have the angle to see the contact, how can I ask for help when I'm sure it went off of A? How do you handle this as a crew? I wanted to say "well, if you both saw the contact, then call it!", but felt I would come across as some pompus, in-experienced hot shot, questioning seasoned veterans (a no no on our board when working with certain vets). Could I have mentioned that a different way? How would you handle this as a crew? Maybe I should have taken a step or two during the rebound action to get a better angle? Looking for some honest help with this particular situation. Thanks!

They passed on a foul, a foul so obvious that given the opportunity they would have changed a call that was just as obvious....:confused:

Sounds like your "seasoned vets" need some more seasoning.....

If you think you had the call right, then there was NO need to ask for help. You just live and die with it unless one of your partners does come in.

And neither of your partners can change a violation to a foul if you do go to them for help. There's no rules backing to do that. The idea from the git-go is to get the call right. If either of your partners really wanted to get the call right, they would have immediately came to you to discuss it. And that discussion consists of deciding what occurred first---> the violation or the foul. That's what you and your partner(s) have to come to a concensus on.

You're completely right in analyzing the play post-call to see if you should have done something different to maybe get into a better position to see the contact. But sometimes you just can't see that type of contact from the L and you have to depend on your partner(s) to catch it. Doo-doo happens.

From a political standpoint, let it go. There's no upside in getting into it any further. Experience does not necessarily equate to competency. And from your description, that seems to suit your partners to a T. Part of the learning process is learning what partners you can learn from.

Good job on your part imo. I wouldn't sweat it any further.

Thanks for the help all. Yeah, told myself last night that i would let it tick me off until I went to bed, and next morning i'd not worry about it any longer (the nice frosty cold one I had when I got home helped too :)

New day, not worrying about it anymore. But I do appreciate the feedback. :D

"I would come across as some pompus, in-experienced hot shot, questioning seasoned veterans (a no no on our board when working with certain vets). "

This is total crap...if you are not going to work as a crew than I don't want to work with them. I would have come off at a pompus a$$ and questioned them big time. Call the DARN foul. :confused:

Just because you are a seasoned veteran official doesn't mean you are any good or don't make mistakes...I am pissed for you.

You'd better know the local politics well before you do something like this. You may be 100% right but kicking up a fuss with a couple of good ol' boys that may have a l'il stroke in your area might just be the worst thing that you can do as a new official.

Unfortunately, there's a real world out there. And the right thing isn't necessarily the smartest thing...or the best option.

Again, jmo.

Then the bigger question is why is the environment like that? Why are we killing ourselves? What year of officiating do you become untouchable...year 10-15? In our association our veteran officials try to improve themselves every year and are willing to give feedback and well as receive it. A crew means a team of three...no part being more improtant than the other two.

+1

Know who's who in your neck of the woods! Pissing off the wrong person could land you in F/JV circuit for good.


That being said, in regards to vbzebras sitch, lets be good partners & get the call right!! I hate when "partners" dont give help because you didn't ask for it, especially on plays they know you can't see :mad:

At the end of the day, egos aside, lets get it right as we are paid to do.

If you have definite knowledge that will help the crew and the game you better come forward with it. Don't wait until we are in the locker room.

Yeah it doesn't do us much good at that time, does it.

But you know what they say, everybody isn't cut out to be an R!

Baloney !!

This is no different than handling a coach that's been around forever.

If the guy's ego is so fragile that a 'newbie" sets him straight, then more people need to be setting him straight.

The culture (knowing who's who) will remain until we so something about it.

We have to make sure we pregrame this and if you are the R on the game make sure you make your crew confortable with coming in and giving information.

I totally agree...in our area this is the difference between old school officials and new school officials. Our local association was ran by the old guard until about 8-10 years ago, I think the association has been better off since the new guard took over.

I respect that, but is not easier to make change from the inside, as oppossed to being the new kid on the block who is merely trying to get in??

The bigger issue is that the veteran officials didn't have his back at all, and because of that the coach was riding the new guys for a situation that could have been corrected in 15 seconds.