Excessive swinging of elbows

[sseltser]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

What rule?

I can't think of any rule that states that a player with the ball can't extend his elbow(s) in a normal fashion while making a legal pivot. The decision that you have to make if contact occurs is whether the defender actually did have a legal, vertical stance or not. The defender's jaw may or may not be in A'1 space, but you have to determine that on each and every play. You can't make up a one-size fits-all dictum like an extended elbow is always illegal to cover these types of call. You don't have the rules-backing to do something like that/

You have to determine first and foremost if the pivot by A1 was legal or not. The ensuing right/proper call can't be made without that determination.

Of course, it's a HTBT call though. Every single one of these elbow-swinging situations is. You have to treat each and every one as a unique play imo and judge that play solely on it's merits. And like any other judgment call, you might get one wrong some time.

The rule is 4-24-6:
The extension of the elbows when the hands are on the hips or when the hands are held near the chest or when the arms are held more or less horizontally are examples of the illegal positions used.

The rules state that extending the elbows is not legal, even if you think it is "normal."

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Based on his description, there is nowayinhell that is a PC foul. It's a completely legal pivot as per NFHS rule 4-24-8:
"It is not legal to swing arms or elbows excessively. This occurs when arms and elbows are swung about while using the shoulders as pivots, and the speed of the extended arms is in excess of the rest of the body as it rotates on the hips or on the pivot foot."

There was NO excessive elbow swinging and the elbows were NOT moving faster than the torso.

I agree that there is not a one-size-fits-all way to call these. But for you to say that there is "nowayinhell" that this is a PC foul is wrong. Just because a pivot is legal, doesn't mean that the offensive player didn't cause illegal contact with his arms/elbows.