Excessive swinging of elbows

[sseltser]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Based on his description, there is nowayinhell that is a PC foul. It's a completely legal pivot as per NFHS rule 4-24-8:
"It is not legal to swing arms or elbows excessively. This occurs when arms and elbows are swung about while using the shoulders as pivots, and the speed of the extended arms is in excess of the rest of the body as it rotates on the hips or on the pivot foot."

There was NO excessive elbow swinging and the elbows were NOT moving faster than the torso.

Those criteria have only been used...oh....forever.


Lah me.....

Just because arm swinging isn't "excessive" doesn't mean that illegal contact wasn't created by the elbows. Excessive swinging isn't the only way for elbow swinging to be illegal.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by sseltser

Just because arm swinging isn't "excessive" doesn't mean that illegal contact wasn't created by the elbows. Excessive swinging isn't the only way for elbow swinging to be illegal.

Oh? And do you think it's then OK to ignore the rest of NFHS rule 4-24?

A player with the ball is allowed to legally pivot. And from Hornet's description, I can't think of any rule that would make that pivot illegal in any way.

If anybody can find one and cite it though, I'd certainly be glad to listen.

[sseltser]

Originally Posted by jurassic referee

oh? And do you think it's then ok to ignore the rest of nfhs rule 4-24?

A player with the ball is allowed to legally pivot. And from hornet's description, i can't think of any rule that would make that pivot illegal in any way.

If anybody can find one and cite it though, i'd certainly be glad to listen.

4-24-6

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by sseltser

4-24-6

That describes contact on a defender who has a legal position. Rule 4-24-8 describes what a player can do while legally pivoting. According to Hornet's description of the play, the pivot was legal. That means the defender's vertical stance has to be illegal if contact occurs.

Apples and oranges...and 4-24-6 isn't germane to the discussion if the player with the ball makes a legal pivot.

[sseltser]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

That describes contact on a defender who has a legal position. Rule 4-24-8 describes what a player can do while legally pivoting. According to Hornet's description of the play, the pivot was legal. That means the defender's vertical stance has to be illegal if contact occurs.

Apples and oranges...and 4-24-6 isn't germane to the discussion if the player with the ball makes a legal pivot.

Just a clarification question: if a player is holding his elbows as in 4-24-6 and pivoting, do you consider this a legal pivot?

In the OP, the way I read it, is that A1 complies with with 4-24-8, but is not complying with 4-24-6. If contact occurs between A1's extended (and illegal) elbow into B1's jaw, I think this could very well be a PC foul.